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guitarhero14
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02-03-2005, 03:43 AM
Post subject: Partial Outs?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .05/.10 NL
Posts: 270
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I am working my way through SSH and came across a confusing subject, partial outs. How many of you use partial outs? I'm going to have to read over that subject again, but can anyone explain it better?
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-guitar
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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I think partial outs is the same as tainted outs but SSH bored the hell out of me and I dont play limit so I read it very little.
I think what it is though is when you have an out that will make someone else a hand that will still beat you.
Say you have 45
flop is 679
you have a an open ended straight draw but a good chance the 8 will be tainted and give someone else a hand that will beat your made straight so you can only count the bottom end which would be the 3 assumming you believe someone has a T. So in the situation you only have 4 outs instead of the usual 8 outs. I don't think that deep into myself. Would probably apply more towards limit where you play by the book a helluva lot more to win in the long run than in NL.
I'm sure there are better examples.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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No, I believe they're backdoor draws.
Runner flushes and straights.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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guitarhero14
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .05/.10 NL
Posts: 270
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i re-read thru it and Boon's right. Does anyone use these to calc their odds?
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-guitar
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Legendash
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Full House
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Crypto 6max 100NL
Posts: 611
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Well i'm aware that certain outs are tainted, you just change the pot odds you're getting from OESD to gutshot or whatever if you're playing it by the numbers, of course its hard to tell sometimes if your outs are tainted but boondocks example is good.
Other tainted outs are if the board pairs and you hold a (lowish) pair you don't want to see trips on the board because although you get a full house anyone holding one of the other cards also has one so all the board card partners become tainted. (You probably already know this even if you haven't thought about it) I think Sklansky discusses these in TOP but i can't remember where.
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"[This theory] is only useful for helping to calculate your luck odds. If you have a good read that you have a numerical advantage against your opponent, that your hand is "luckier"..."
Copyright, Youngdro 2007.
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guitarhero14
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: .05/.10 NL
Posts: 270
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we excluding the bastard that posted the pic. I have to retrack my previous statement. Here is what i have so far.
Partial outs are used for BOTH what boon and rilla said. Sorry for not looking deeper into this before posting.
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-guitar
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Boon, we are two halves to one whole and great mind.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Another thing to keep in mind wrt to outs is that sometimes, your opponent is drawing very thin; there are a few cards left in the deck that may give them a better hand than yours. However, because you have a better made-hand already, effectively all the cards in the deck except the ones that help your opponent out-draw you are effectively your outs.
If I remember correctly, SSH calls these effective outs .....
Honestly, I'm not trying to be the grammer police, but it's retract, not retrack. 
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Boon, we are two halves to one whole and great mind.
-'rilla
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Left and right halves ... or, god forbid ... top & bottom? Which would beg for some pretty disturbing questions which, thankfully I'm not going to enumerate?
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Boon, we are two halves to one whole and great mind.
-'rilla
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I would have to agree. Considering your crazy aggressive antics and my TTATA antics if we could only combine into one we would have the best of both worlds.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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To answer the other half of that question, I try to include partial outs in my calculations (generally just granting 1/2 to 1 out for backdoor draws in addition to any other outs I may have).
- Jeffrey
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