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Overplaying AA postflop??

  
 
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allabout
Old 01-22-2008, 04:25 PM     Post subject: Overplaying AA postflop?? #1 (permalink)  
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Ok, I'm on a bit of a cooler lately, and I'm not complaining about beats or anything, just want to know if others think I'm overplaying AA post flop. I've been stacked 4 times in the last 2 days and only taken 1 others stack. I'll post all 5 hands to see what say ye...

#1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($8.45)
UTG ($16.20)
Hero ($25)
MP1 ($9.25)
MP2 ($16)
MP3 ($15.95)
CO ($5.55)
Button ($5.80)
SB ($22)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 2 folds, Button raises to $2.5, 2 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.75, MP2 calls $1.75.

Flop: ($8.10) 4, T, 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets $3.3 (All-In), Hero calls $3.30, MP2 calls $3.30.

Turn: ($18) 5 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $8, MP2 calls $8.

River: ($34) 9 (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $2.5, MP2 calls $2.20 (All-In).

Final Pot: $38.41

#2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($34.85)
BB ($20.20)
Hero ($25)
UTG+1 ($22.20)
MP1 ($18.75)
MP2 ($28.05)
CO ($20)
Button ($49.40)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.85) , , (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $2, Hero raises to $7, MP2 raises to $12, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($27.85) (2 players)
Hero bets $11.25 (All-In), MP2 calls $11.25.

River: ($0) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $50.35

#3
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($30.80)
Button ($38.05)
Hero ($50.30)
BB ($2.90)
UTG ($10.95)
UTG+1 ($21.90)
MP1 ($14.50)
MP2 ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 raises to $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.75, UTG+1 calls $2, MP2 calls $2.

Flop: ($12.25) , , (4 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG calls $7.95 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, MP2 raises to $21.65, Hero calls $13.65.

Turn: ($36.10) (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($36.10) (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $63.50

#4
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP1 ($15.75)
MP2 ($25.25)
CO ($24.65)
Button ($10.05)
SB ($24.75)
Hero ($24.75)
UTG ($33.10)
UTG+1 ($24.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.75, UTG+1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1.

Flop: ($5.35) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $2, UTG+1 raises to $4, MP2 folds, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($13.35) (2 players)
Hero bets $6.75, UTG+1 calls $6.75.

River: ($26.85) (2 players)
Hero bets $12.25 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $11.90 (All-In).

Final Pot: $50.65

#5
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

BB ($11.60)
UTG ($13.70)
MP ($9)
Hero ($9.85)
SB ($22.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.4, 2 folds, MP calls $0.30.

Flop: ($0.95) , , (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.6, MP calls $0.60.

Turn: ($2.15) (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.5, MP calls $1.50.

River: ($5.15) (2 players)
MP bets $6.5 (All-In), Hero calls $6.50.

Final Pot: $18.15
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Pythonic
Old 01-22-2008, 04:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Reraise preflop on hands 1 and 2. Bullets are most profitable when played HU.
Hand# 1 - looks like a set beat you.
Hand# 2 - is either a set or a flush.
Hand# 3 - Be careful in those multiway pots, looks like flush or boat.
Hand# 4 - Reraise preflop 3-4x his initial raise
Hand# 5 - Tough call on the river. I'm probably folding here, looks like a slowplayed set or 2 pair.
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shazbox
Old 01-22-2008, 05:12 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I didn't look at all of them, but from the first two you look like you are UNDERplaying them. You just call the guys raise in the first one, which gives the guy acting behind you a lot better odds to draw to all sorts of things.

Also, why no re-raises preflop?
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allabout
Old 01-22-2008, 05:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shazbox
I didn't look at all of them, but from the first two you look like you are UNDERplaying them. You just call the guys raise in the first one, which gives the guy acting behind you a lot better odds to draw to all sorts of things.

Also, why no re-raises preflop?
I try to mix it up a little. This is of course just 5 hands, but 3 and 4 I did reraise and 5 I raised pf. I guess I feel if I reraise every time I have AA I might be getting predictable. Maybe I should 3 bet other hands more often...but that's another topic.
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Pythonic
Old 01-22-2008, 05:36 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Sometimes it's ok to cold call with AA HU with position. Seems like it's easier to get the money in when you are up against QQ or KK and the flop is low. Just hope an ace doesn't come up though or you will be losing lots of value by not making them pay to see a flop preflop.
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langaan
Old 01-22-2008, 05:40 PM     Post subject: aa #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allabout
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazbox
I didn't look at all of them, but from the first two you look like you are UNDERplaying them. You just call the guys raise in the first one, which gives the guy acting behind you a lot better odds to draw to all sorts of things.

Also, why no re-raises preflop?
I try to mix it up a little. This is of course just 5 hands, but 3 and 4 I did reraise and 5 I raised pf. I guess I feel if I reraise every time I have AA I might be getting predictable. Maybe I should 3 bet other hands more often...but that's another topic.
mixing it up can be a good thing, but never ever check or call pre-flop with aa UNLESS you are heads up against a loose player that you can read very well. even in that case, you cant ever go wrong getting it all in pre-flop with aa, well, unless of course you suspect more than 2 or 3 callers / stack size...

be safe to just never ever call with aa preflop :P, raise, re-raise, all in.
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shazbox
Old 01-22-2008, 06:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allabout
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazbox
I didn't look at all of them, but from the first two you look like you are UNDERplaying them. You just call the guys raise in the first one, which gives the guy acting behind you a lot better odds to draw to all sorts of things.

Also, why no re-raises preflop?
I try to mix it up a little. This is of course just 5 hands, but 3 and 4 I did reraise and 5 I raised pf. I guess I feel if I reraise every time I have AA I might be getting predictable. Maybe I should 3 bet other hands more often...but that's another topic.
Mostly just on the first hand, with another person to act behind you, calling gives him good odds to call as well. Same with calling on the flop, and only betting <half the pot on the turn.

If there is only one other person in, for sure calling with the aces is fine to mix it up.
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ecrujet
Old 01-23-2008, 10:47 AM #8 (permalink)  

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from memory you get AA about every 120 hands, players will not remember how you play your aces unless you are a rock and only ever just limp and raise very rarely, thinking players love this play because we know wnat youv;e got
If you don't already, try raising quite a lot from the button especially when it is folded to you, you can raise with suited connectors. semi connecters any pairs, coloured cards, actually anything once you know they will fold to a cbet. If other players see you are busy your aces will be disguised and never call a reraise if you have AA always repop it. Poker is not just about AA,KK, I love it when I get them and I love it when certain other players get them.
I only wrote this because you said 'if i reraise every time I have AA I might be getting predictable'. That may be why you lost 4 out of 5 stacks.
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allabout
Old 01-23-2008, 12:38 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Thanks for all the advice. Thats why I posted this here. It made me think about what I was doing with big hands and I think for some reason when I'm running bad I try to get too cute with my hands to make big pots. Suddenly I'm letting people draw out and I'm stuck worse. Anyway, I really appreciate it.
Hand #1 - beat 4s6s
Hand #2 - lost to JJ
Hand #3 - lost to AdQd
Hand #4 - lost to KK
Hand #5 - lost to 33
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deacon_bluez
Old 01-23-2008, 04:03 PM #10 (permalink)  
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[quote="allabout"]
Hand #3 - lost to AdQd
Hand #4 - lost to KK

Hand 3... I would want to sit at the table with this villain. If he wants to push with a flush draw and I have AA, I take his stack more than he takes mine, I think. Lots of other hands that players at this level push with that you beat too.

Hand 4... I would have probably reraised to about $3-4 pf, but it wouldn't have mattered. Villain would have come along, and the flop was miserable, so losing your stack is almost a sure thing.
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will641
Old 01-23-2008, 07:05 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 hand 1: shove turn as played.
hand 2: 4 bet pre, as played shove over his flop min raise.
hand 3: 3 bet bigger than but otherwise standard.
hand 4: bet every street harder including preflop.
hand 5: fold river you are beat a lot here.
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Chopper
Old 01-23-2008, 10:37 PM #12 (permalink)  
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one...shove pre
two...this is why we dont flat call with AA. RR.
three...RR bigger pre. pot flop. too many players for you to beg for action.
four...raise bigger pre. pot control after minraise w/o reads. turn bet was spew. you were sent a message.
five...best hand of the five.

you are inviting these suckouts if they are occuring post flop. if villains are hitting sets on flop, not much you can do. at these levels, i dont fold AA a lot, but i can find the fold button in hand 3.

biggest problem for microstakes players...TAKING ONE PAIR HANDS TOO FAR. keep betting until you are told to stop, but dont be afraid to slow down when you are told to. remember, AA is a one pair hand. like i said, i dont fold it alot, but i dont keep betting and raising with it when i get raised and called, either.

your preflop and post flop bet sizing is not great. keep posting hands, and we'll help get it where it needs to be.

dont mix up AA at 25NL and below. you will be giving too much credit to your opponents' skills if you do. try and get it all in pf 100% of the time. dont call. i understand the "idea" behind not driving off lesser hands, but that is inviting suckouts, imo.

a lot of players need to remember "AA wins lots of small pots, and loses lots of big pots."
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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ProZachNation
Old 01-25-2008, 01:11 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I didn't read but you should always try to get allin pf with aces. It is the only time were you can know 100% you are ahead. if they three bet and you 4bet or shove and they fold thats is still a pretty good pick up, if they call well your heads up with hopefully a better thought on their range.
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bode
Old 01-25-2008, 02:59 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 your problems w/ AA are not post flop.
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allabout
Old 01-25-2008, 06:01 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Thanks for all the comments, I really tried to incorporate what you all were saying and play more aggressively pre flop. Over the 3 days since this original post I've changed the way I played AA. Had AA 43 times for a net of about $43, so $1 a hand. Thought I'd post some more hands to try to redeem myself for my preflop play (although these were pretty standard pf). Not all of these are winners of course, but want to see if I played them better.

#1
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($11.35)
Button ($22.90)
SB ($25.50)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($9.15)
UTG+1 ($24.65)
MP1 ($25.05)
MP2 ($24.65)
MP3 ($12.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.75, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, UTG folds, MP1 calls $1.75, MP3 folds.

I put him on AK, KK or QQ at this point

Flop: ($6.10) A, 7, K (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, MP1 raises to $2.5, Hero raises to $5.5, MP1 calls $3.

Turn: ($17.10) J (2 players)
Hero bets $17 (All-In), MP1 calls $17.

Figured if he played QT and made a straight then he sucks but I gotta pay it off.

River: ($0) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $51.10

#2
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($9.25)
Button ($24.75)
SB ($25.15)
BB ($31.70)
Hero ($25)
UTG+1 ($59.35)
MP1 ($8.20)
MP2 ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with , .
Hero raises to $1, UTG+1 calls $1, 3 folds, Button calls $1, 2 folds.

Flop: ($3.35) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, UTG+1 calls $2.50, Button folds.

Turn: ($8.35) (2 players)
Hero bets $6.5, UTG+1 calls $6.50.

River: ($21.35) (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25.

Final Pot: $25.85

Anyone else run into a lot of scary straight boards vs pp? I lose more all ins to shortys w/AA/KK/QQ to a straight.

#3
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($9.95)
MP2 ($1.85)
MP3 ($2.15)
CO ($1.80)
Button ($34.55)
SB ($1.90)
BB ($18)
UTG ($6.65)
UTG+1 ($11.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.5, 2 folds, CO calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB calls $0.45, BB calls $0.40, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($2.10) , , (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1.9, CO folds, SB calls $1.40 (All-In), BB raises to $17.5, Hero calls $7.55 (All-In).

Pretty scared by his all in here. Thought maybe he had AK or KJ or even QQ. Good call???

Turn: ($22.40) (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($22.40) (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $22.40

#4
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP3 ($5.10)
CO ($1.20)
Hero ($15.15)
SB ($1.80)
BB ($20.20)
UTG ($10.45)
UTG+1 ($10.25)
MP1 ($9.40)
MP2 ($3.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.5, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.40.

Flop: ($1.15) , , (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.6, MP1 calls $0.60.

Turn: ($2.35) (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, MP1 raises to $8.3, Hero calls $6.30.

River: ($18.95) (2 players)

Final Pot: $18.95

#5
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($7.05)
BB ($6)
UTG ($3.95)
UTG+1 ($9.30)
MP1 ($8.20)
Hero ($15.80)
MP3 ($6.15)
CO ($4.65)
Button ($6.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, MP3 calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, 2 folds, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.65) , , (4 players)
BB bets $1.2, Hero raises to $3, MP3 raises to $5.75, CO folds, BB calls $4.40 (All-In), Hero calls $2.75.

Turn: ($18.45) (3 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($18.45) (3 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $18.75
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