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Overpair vs. Shove

  
 
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ginozola
Old 01-04-2009, 10:41 AM     Post subject: Overpair vs. Shove #1 (permalink)  
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ginozola
Some thoughts on this one please. Btn had been multi-tabling, he'd barely played a hand through twenty, then either appeared to catch some cards or find the raise button (over the last ten hands).

BB had sat down a few hands earlier. He'd been involved in two hands. Raising from the Btn and taking the blinds, then checking his BB and folding to a bet on the flop. With no information on his play, I try to assign a tighter range of hands to an opp. than generally seen at this level.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

MP ($5.71)
Button ($7.85)
Hero (SB) ($5.04)
BB ($1.57)
UTG ($0.81)

Preflop: Hero is SB with ,
2 folds, Button raises to $0.06, Hero calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04

Folded around to button, who raises. My range for the button is still wide, Axs+, KJ+, all PPs. But I'm OOP. With KK+ I'd re-raise, but I just call with one player left to act. BB calls also. His range is wider. With no info., he'll be calling anything from suited gaps, Qxo upwards. I'm confident I'm good when he calls.

Flop: ($0.18) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $0.14, BB calls $0.14, 1 fold

When the Button checks the flop, I think I'm good so bet about 3/4 pot, expecting both to fold. BB calls. Button folds. BB's call tightens his range some, but not a lot. I can rule out the lower PPs (other than 22 obv.), but he's sticking around with any 8,T with a A-J kicker, also w/any two hearts. T8 is possible, but I'd expect a raise here.

Turn: ($0.46) (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, BB raises to $1.37 (All-In), Hero calls $0.97

Turn is an offsuit 3. This doesn't change anything board wise. I again bet out, this time slightly over 3/4 pot. If he's after the heart, he's paying for it. I don't think anything between 3/4 pot to full pot affects his calling frequency.

Looking back at the bet now, it was a quite a sizable chunk of his stack, so the push over isn't all that surprising. I'm behind to sets, T8 and slowed played AA, KK (which I'd ruled out, but I suppose account for 0.1% of his possible hands here). I don't know how to work out the exact maths behind this call so if anyone could give me some advice, please do. I've run this through pokerstove since vs. his possible range and I'm a big favourite, approx 67%. I called.

River: ($3.20) (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $3.20 | Rake: $0.15

Some thoughts on this would be good, especially as to how I've gone through the hand. Also, any pointers to good posts on calculating decisions like the one above. Thanks.
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nice_aiau
Old 01-04-2009, 12:18 PM #2 (permalink)  
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nice_aiau
please 3bet QQ, especially against a button raise.
BB is given pretty good odds to overcall, and a 3way pot with qq oop isn't ideal.

How'd the button check the flop, if u were first to act?
I like the bet sizing. I'd psb on flop but thats just me,
The call then shove on the turn shows huge strength.
need more info for better hand reading, I'd say the majority of the time he'll have 88,22 or 10 8.
Other times will be a10, Flushdraw(whos angry he missed the turn).
He'd prob raise 10s+ so I think we can rule out one of the sets and overpairs.

 
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ginozola
Old 01-04-2009, 12:43 PM #3 (permalink)  
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ginozola
Quote:
Originally Posted by nice_aiau
please 3bet QQ, especially against a button raise.
BB is given pretty good odds to overcall, and a 3way pot with qq oop isn't ideal.

How'd the button check the flop, if u were first to act?
I like the bet sizing. I'd psb on flop but thats just me,
The call then shove on the turn shows huge strength.
need more info for better hand reading, I'd say the majority of the time he'll have 88,22 or 10 8.
Other times will be a10, Flushdraw(whos angry he missed the turn).
He'd prob raise 10s+ so I think we can rule out one of the sets and overpairs.
Fair point on the 3bet QQ. Something I need to start doing.

The button didn't check the flop, I'm not sure why I said he did. Misread my HH.
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Blazing_Saddler
Old 01-04-2009, 12:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I know it is said you should never do anything always, but at 2NL, I can't think of any time I'm not 3 betting that. OOP to boot.

As said he couldn't check the flop to you on the button. I am calling.
Want to beat HUSNG ?

http://tagpoker.myfastforum.org/about861.html
 
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poker_pup
Old 01-04-2009, 03:23 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I think you're beat on the turn. An overpair is USUALLY beat when you bet more than 1/2 of the pot and are raised.
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battlewagon
Old 01-04-2009, 04:00 PM #6 (permalink)  

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battlewagon
I agree with the 3bet - although I have a horrible problem doing that as well. just practice.

so what did he wind up having? And why did you rule out K-K? Based on what I've seen from playing PokerStars low-stakes, the tendency is to ALWAYS overbet the overpair.
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ginozola
Old 01-04-2009, 04:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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ginozola
Quote:
Originally Posted by battlewagon
I agree with the 3bet - although I have a horrible problem doing that as well. just practice.

so what did he wind up having? And why did you rule out K-K? Based on what I've seen from playing PokerStars low-stakes, the tendency is to ALWAYS overbet the overpair.
He had A8. Queens held up.

I ruled out KK because I think he'd have re-raised it either preflop or on the flop.

Thanks.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-04-2009, 06:01 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I would always 3 bet QQ from the SB. I simply don't see many reasons not to

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 01-04-2009, 06:06 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Why are people stating they have problems re-raising the 3rd nuts PF?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-04-2009, 06:11 PM #10 (permalink)  
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a500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to alla500lbgorilla is a name known to all
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because the flop comes an ace like everytime! lol jokerstarzzz

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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ginozola
Old 01-04-2009, 07:03 PM #11 (permalink)  
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ginozola
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Why are people stating they have problems re-raising the 3rd nuts PF?
I don't have a problem raising here. It should have been raised up preflop. I know that. I've been trying to tighten my game up a lot but I've tightened it up too much here. I'm not really sure what a500lbgorilla is going on about.
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kb coolman
Old 01-04-2009, 09:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
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kb coolman
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginozola
I'm not really sure what a500lbgorilla is going on about.
lol...he's not even warmed up yet.
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