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Overcard flush draws

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SmackinYaUp

06-21-2005, 06:18 AM Post subject: Overcard flush draws

#1 (permalink)

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Lets say you have AKs and flop a flush draw on a raggedy board. How strong do you play this hand against resistance? I know this question is vague, but I'd like to hear some random thoughts.

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dsaxton

06-21-2005, 06:57 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Represent an overpair and if I get raised then I just call and try to hit a flush. If I hit the flush then I'll consider check-raising unless the board pairs in the process, in which case I'd probably lead out.

NathanAK

06-21-2005, 07:23 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

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depends on how many players are resisting and how they have been previously playing. If you think they are bluffing I would call then check raise if hit or if not check and only if check play on. Otherwise i'd give, however watch for having top pair or top pairs. With big slick suited you have other options other than draws.

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Rondavu

06-21-2005, 01:04 PM

#4 (permalink)

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This just happened to me last night. I was on the button and the only caller of my preflop raise was BB. I had AKh and 2 hearts pop out on a rag board. He instantly went all in, and I called and won.

You have 15 outs here. You're better than even money to improve with two cards to come. I might fold if my stack is huge and covered. In this case I had slightly less than the table buy in, and had him slightly covered as well. Also, he was a very aggressive player so I felt like all my outs were good to improve over him.

My answer is you should play it according to your opponent. If he's tight, I don't call huge bets. Otherwise, I hang in there as well as I can.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

journey075

06-21-2005, 02:16 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 725

yr the favorite assuming your outs are clean - this is hardly ever the case though. i like to control the pot in situations like this, betting 3/4 the pot on all streets. in the long term its a profitable move.

BIGandRICH

06-21-2005, 02:59 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Jazz Club

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mmm.. lots of outs.. i'm inclined to agree with rondavu here,if its only one other player and if i'm already up significantly and the guy has me covered for my whole stack then i'll leave it. but if he's shortstacked i'll put him all in right there.

But if you dont mind some variance then go for it.. 15 outs makes you a 54% fav.. just hope he's not on Ax TPTK and prepared to call All in, though you would still be 44%, i could live with that. remembering that he's probably going to fold if he hasnt got 2 pair/set/openended-flush draw.

If the board isnt paired and theres alot of action then i would nearly always push, if you get more callers, which i often do.. if can get 4:1 pay off for 1:1 odds then i'm pretty happy, thats a big winner in the long run
ofcourse if he has a set you only have 9 outs, so be wary of that if your not getting loads of action from all around the table, if your up against a set there needs to be 3-4 callers of your bet for it to be +EV

villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****

BIGandRICH

06-21-2005, 03:01 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGandRICH

there needs to be 3-4 callers of your bet for it to be +EV

note: this is refering to you going allin on the flop, things change if there is going to be a betting round on the turn.

villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****

Fnord

06-21-2005, 03:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Axs with a flush draw and an over-card is about a coin flip vs a pair. AKs with 2 overcards and a flush draw against pair is a favorite.

With a healthy pot, you should push hard for fold equity unless the money is really really deep.

In a smaller pot, you might be better off just drawing because there isn't much to steal.

With shallow money it's an easy push.

With deep money, these spots make my head hurt. Your biggest threat is missing the turn and getting pushed off your hand. Try to raise the flop to check behind on the turn with position to prevent this from happening.

If the board is paired, you need to be careful, probably one of those NL spots where you might just have to let it go to heavy resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Rondavu

06-21-2005, 03:18 PM

#9 (permalink)

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In a cash game I'm never pushing on the flop. I might call a push if I feel like all my outs are clean and it won't cost me a long hard fought stack.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

BIGandRICH

06-21-2005, 04:09 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Jazz Club

Posts: 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

In a cash game I'm never pushing on the flop. I might call a push if I feel like all my outs are clean and it won't cost me a long hard fought stack.

I dont often put it all in at the flop, but sometimes its useful. If i'm holding the nuts and i know a guy will call an all in on a drawing hand then i'll put him in at the flop, saves me making difficult decisions on the turn and river. I cant stand that feeling of having possibly been bullied out of chips. so as far as i'm concerned if they want to draw then they pay the maximum price i can get out of them, and if that price is their whole stack then thats the price it is.

its like Fnord said on the deep money and over betting post, ''get an edge and drop the fucking hammer.''

villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****

Fnord

06-21-2005, 04:29 PM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

In a cash game I'm never pushing on the flop.

You're giving up too much.

$25 NL home game (.25 and .10 blinds.)

Micheal1123 raises to 3x (he's got two cards.) I re-raise to 9x with QQ, Micheal calls. Flop is a bunch of rags. Micheal checks, I push. Micheal thinks for a bit and calls with middle pair.

If one of the best NL players on the forum makes this call, imagine how often the fish make this call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

06-21-2005, 05:01 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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One more hand from that day.

Jes_Gru opens for 3x, I re-raise to 6x with KQs. Blinds fold (Micheal looks disappointed as he folds), and Jes calls. Flop is raggy but gives me 2 overs + a flush draw. Jes checks, I bet 10x, Jes raises to 20x flat, I push. Jes shows AKo, mutters some phrase with the word "aggressive" and folds. I show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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