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Crunch
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02-03-2005, 07:34 PM
Post subject: 'Outplaying your opponent' after the flop.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Saint John
Posts: 82
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I see this term used quite a bit...outplaying your opponent. Dave Ulliot(sp?) can get away with playing aggressive because he can 'outplay his opponent' after the flop. What does this refer to, and how do you out play an opponent that has a better hand and has called your preflop raise with a less than adequate hand?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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It means getting your opponent to fold a better hand, often through representing a hand. Many advanced players are capable of reading hands and figuring out how to get you to lay it down. This is what's meant when they're said to "outplay" another player.
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Crunch
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Saint John
Posts: 82
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Perhaps you might have an example that I could relate to? Personally I fail to understand the difference between 'pushing someone off the pot with a big raise', and 'outplaying your opponent'.
Is it an upper echelon thing, where if Howard Ledered raised the pot $4000, he's saying he's bluffing and buying the pot, please don't call me....whereas if he had bet $2000 instead he's representing betting for value when he actually has nothing at all?
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Usuyami
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 62
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Outplay - Let's say you have top pair on the flop and you know your opponent has two pairs. He raises on the flop and you just call. The turn card is no help to either of you but it does present a flush draw. Even if you don't have the flush, you can bet like you do, and he'll fold his hand if he believes you.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Except that someone will more often lead out with a flush draw than with two pair.
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™
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 144
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"Guest" has an interesting strategy there... 
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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As I would define outplaying, it's getting your opponent to play in an incorrect way, if he knew the hand you were holding--stealing the pot when you are weak yourself but sense weakness, bluffing scare cards and folding out legit hands, getting paid off when you hit the better hand, and snapping off attempted bluffs.
For example, a player like Devilfish will play some real trash hands not b/c his hand plays well statistically against what the other guy could be holding, but b/c of the implied odds of him outmaneuvering the other player postflop.
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gregor
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95
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if you can correctly pin an opponent on a hand, you can manipulate the pot odds for him to call, making it a bad play....that is outplaying your opponent...taking advantage of his tendencies to fold when challenged....
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gregor
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 95
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
For example, a player like Devilfish will play some real trash hands not b/c his hand plays well statistically against what the other guy could be holding, but b/c of the implied odds of him outmaneuvering the other player postflop.
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i think trash hands have to be situationally played... not looked at as having an implied odds percentage of 'outplaying.'
rationalization is a poker players worst enemy....
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TheDoc
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 144
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Outplaying your opponent: getting him to play differently then if he were able to see your hole cards. it can also be considered getting him to make -EV plays but I lean much more to the former as the latter has more to do with your opponents bad play then your good play.
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Outplaying someone postflop does not nescessarily result in taking the pot down. You could outplay someone by folding when you know you can't win. Over the long run if you do this more often than your opponents, then you are outplaying them.
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