|
minSim
|
09-03-2008, 11:00 AM
Post subject: Opening requirements vs loose passives? (xpost from SH)
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
Sorry for the xpost from the shorthanded forum. I don't post much in the Beginners forum but I actually think this one belongs here more than in the SH forum. I hope to get some worthy responses/discussion
I'm going to describe a table situation I have trouble with and tell my thought process. I hope people are willing to comment on my thought process and questions (I numbered them);
So we're playing micro stakes with some tag/nits and some loose passives at the table.
1. The tag/nits fold a lot preflop and are straightforward postflop, so they don't really dictate my preflop hand choice in this situation.
Let's assume the loose passive has stats of 50/5/0.5.
2a. Am I right in my thinking on a fundamental level, that because villain is playing a weaker range, I can widen my range as well?
2b. Does this count both IP and OOP?
Let's say I'm CO, BTN and CO are standard TAG or nit and therefor don't bother me much, passive villain (50/5/0.5) is BB.
3a. What's an indication of the wideness of my range to open profitable? (type of answer I'm looking for is for example 30%, or 2/3 of his vpip, or 20-40%?)
3b. Am I right that opening stuff like A9,KT,QJ (generally cards with more cold equity, instead of implied odds hands like SC's) are the better choice against these opponents?
4 How do both 3a and 3b change when villain is playing 30/10/1 ?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
bjsaust
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
|
|
I'll take a different approach answering this one.
Whats your plan postflop v's this guy? How do you think your range should vary based on that plan?
|
|
Just playing to improve.
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
I'd say that only question 3b is primarily dictated by villains postflop play and it's of influence on 3a (meaning it's a variable when going into details, but not on the fundamental level if I should considerably widen my range or not)
(I admit I'm not 100% sure)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You're correct you can play more hands vs. them
but it sucks having them in the blinds, since you want people whose blinds you can steal
by playing too loosely these players are actually playing a sick blind defense strategy by accident and you need MORE of a hand to blind steal against them than against tighter players
|
|
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
The way I see it:
- Against tight players you're primarily stealing the blinds for the blinds money.
- Against loose players, you're primarily raising a hand for a profitable postflop situation where you have position and the initiative.
|
|
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
You're correct you can play more hands vs. them
but it sucks having them in the blinds, since you want people whose blinds you can steal
by playing too loosely these players are actually playing a sick blind defense strategy by accident and you need MORE of a hand to blind steal against them than against tighter players
|
depending on just how stubborn they are postflop they are the perfect people to have in the blinds, actually they are the perfect people to have in the blinds either way, you may just have to alter you strategy. people who routinely play raised pots OOP with weak hands are going to lose money, and they will lose it to the person IP.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
I tend to try to play as many hands as possible in position against these guys, but like to have a decent postflop read before venturing in too light. then I adjust accordingly.
If they just love to see flops, then fold when it doesn't hit them, then I tend to raise 4x +1 for any limpers to try to get it HU to the flop in a slightly larger pot that I bet at regardless of what comes.
If they love to see all 5 cards, then I tend to raise 3x +1 for the limpers, again in the hopes of seeing a flop HU vs them, but this time I want a little smaller pot, and really want to be IP so that I can maximize value when ahead and minimize losses when behind. I will bet out with most pairs on the flop, and will usually check most turns if I have less than TP (kickers aren't too important here, I tend to treat a T as being in the strong kicker category against these guys and go for more value). I tend not to semibluff, but rather just take my free card, since I will have little trouble building a big pot when I hit.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
minSim
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
|
|
Pgil, that seems to be a very good strategy to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pgil
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by iopq
You're correct you can play more hands vs. them
but it sucks having them in the blinds, since you want people whose blinds you can steal
by playing too loosely these players are actually playing a sick blind defense strategy by accident and you need MORE of a hand to blind steal against them than against tighter players
|
depending on just how stubborn they are postflop they are the perfect people to have in the blinds, actually they are the perfect people to have in the blinds either way, you may just have to alter you strategy. people who routinely play raised pots OOP with weak hands are going to lose money, and they will lose it to the person IP. |
That's the problem, you're only going to be IP for two hands against them, and OOP for the rest of the time. Now if you sat to the LEFT of them you'd be IP all but two hands per orbit against them.
|
|
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
If we are looking at a 6max game, this isn't an issue at all. Those times you are OOP against them you should have a very strong hand, since you are in EP anyways. Them being on your left will only affect you for 2 hands at most.
What is best is having them UTG when you are on the BTN. They will be limping in with a lot from that postition, so they are essentially playing as a second BB, allowing you to abuse them with position for 3 hands, while being OOP for so few important ones.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
besides, someone has to be on the BTN when we open on the HJ. I would prefer a loose passive drooler over a laggy 3better who loves to float and can put us in some very tough spots postflop.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
