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The_Anomaly
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04-18-2005, 03:19 PM
Post subject: opening betting..
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 28
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This has come up a few times lately and we're not completly sure on the rulings. say i raise with $5 AA and someone calls then someone goes all in behind the person who called for like $6 total. Now thats not a legal bet because you need to bet at least double the original bet but can i go all in when actions on me? The rule is anyone can go all in at any time isnt it? or do i just have the option to call here?
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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If he's all-in it's legal. If he just raises, then it would need to be at least $10.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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since he couldn't make a legal bet (5 or more) your only option is to call.
Hate the rule.
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The_Anomaly
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 28
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ok so the rule you can bet all your chips at any time is not a real rule?
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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Like most rules there are exceptions.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by [url=http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#NO-LIMIT%20RULES
Roberts Rules[/url]]3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not facing a fullsize wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)
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In the example above lets say player C went all in for $275. Player A called the $275. Now player B must either put up another $75 (he was at $200) or fold. He can not re-raise because he has not been "fully raised". If player A chose to raise it to $300 or more, then player B could re-raise it as much as he wanted, but not less than Player A's raise.
So a test question here:
Blinds are 50/100
Player A is SB
Player B is BB
Player C is button
Player C calls 100
Player A completes (calls 100)
Player B checks
Flop comes
Player A bets the minimum (100)
Player B raises to 300
Player C goes all in for 550
Player A calls 550
Player B's turn.... Can he re-raise?
Answer in white:
Yes, he can reraise.
Player A bet 100 (legal)
Player B raised it 200 making it 300 to go (legal)
Player C raised it 250 maing it 550 to go (legal)
Plaer A called
Player B was fully raised.. his raise was of 200 and he got raised 250 more so he can now raise 250 or more
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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is this how it works online though? i'm trying to think, i don't know if i've ever been exactly in this situation, but i definitely can't think of a time the raise button was blanked out or anything like that. I am really wanting to say online they make it so you can raise any raise.
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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Yes it is how it works online.. you will notice it by the time when you dont have the slider bar any more, and can only call or fold even though you have more money.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i NEVER understood this stupid rule. if there are 6 players in the pot and one guy goes all-in without a full bet, why can't i get heads up for the side pot against one of the remaining players by re-raising all-in?? what problem does this rule correct?
ChezJ
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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Its a situational rule. I believe the reason for the basic rule is to keep players from making repeated "annoying" reraises. And it adds a strategic (sp?) level of play. In the first example given, player A is blocking just such a move from player B with his call. Usually you can make the re-raise to isolate, it is only when the last player to bet has not been fully raised that it comes into play [FOR THAT PLAYER]. Player B could have avoided it by betting more the first time. Also Player A completely had the option to isolate with a larger raise.
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The_Anomaly
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 28
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I ask this because sometimes I'll raise so much and i know some of the people i play with will call with something really dumb to see a flop and crack whatever i have. one kid in particular will always call any raise i make with anything because he loves trying to bust me. I'm also known to raise these very high amounts pre flop to get rid of people playing something stupid and alot of times its aboout half or more of someone's stack so they just go all in, then the kid that calls me with anything calls their raise of all in and i push my stack behind him so if he misses the flop i'm going to get paid off from him and not worry about the side pot from the kid who's all in. He's been getting mad that everytime this happens i almost force him to call my all in (pot dedication i guess) and he does end up paying me off.
example: i raise $5 pre-flop and a kid goes all in behind me with about $8, the "cracker" calls the $8 and its on me again. then i, knowing if he misses the flop i'm losing the $8 from the other kid (i'm not too secure with 10's), push my stack for about $50
this is no limit and i'm still a little confused. is this legal or do i have to just call the extra $4 and hope he catches a peice of the flop
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The_Anomaly
example: i raise $5 pre-flop and a kid goes all in behind me with about $8, the "cracker" calls the $8 and its on me again. then i, knowing if he misses the flop i'm losing the $8 from the other kid (i'm not too secure with 10's), push my stack for about $50
this is no limit and i'm still a little confused. is this legal or do i have to just call the extra $4 and hope he catches a peice of the flop
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Not legal by casino or "official" rules, but whatever is OK according to house rules is just fine.
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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So, if the house was going to enforce this rule, all you need to do is open the betting at $4 instead of $5, and then make the same move.
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Spook
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 388
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This rule and the string betting rule are the two most confusing for newer players. Both are there for a good reason and IMHO should be enforced especially in "friendly" games as well as more serious ones. Knowing and following the rules makes for a fairer, safer, and all around better environment.
When money is involved it is in everyones best interest to get these things out in the open right from the start. Many a good friendship has ended over lesser things.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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the purpose of the string bet rule is obvious.
this other rule makes absolutely no sense at all to me. the_anomaly's example is precisely what i would want to do, but it is not possible at online cardrooms that enforce the rule.
ChezJ
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