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View Poll Results: Which "Tell" do you see the most?
Quickness to respond	4	36.36%
Player's names	0	0%
Automatic play	1	9.09%
Chat panel	0	0%
Slowness to respond	2	18.18%
Other	4	36.36%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

Online Tells-?!?!?

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Xo_Sirk_oX

04-20-2006, 04:17 AM Post subject: Online Tells-?!?!?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

I ran into an article the topic, and it interested me. So I did a search of the forums here and found no discussion on the topic. ( I may have missed it) If I please direct me towards the post and or bring it up again, as this is something that I feel does play a part into "reading" someone. ( Ok not so much part but most of it )
Below are the results of a survey from online players. They are listed in order to they came in. Players where given the 5 options and where to choose 3.

1 - Automatic play – a lazy approach to the auto buttons lets a player slip into a set pattern of play – a break in that pattern is a clear tell

2 - Slowness to respond – a pause followed by a check can often indicate weakness, a delay followed by a raise often indicates a strong hand

3 - Quickness to respond – a very fast check can often indicate a weak hand, quick bets on the turn or the river can often indicate a strong hand.

4 - Chat panel - talk gives clues, silent types often play hard, holding good hands when they raise; chatty, friendly players tend to be looser.

5 - Player's names - screen names like 'The Gambler' and 'Mad Dog' tend to be loose and aggressive while players with names such as 'The Rock' tend to be tighter players.

I am trying to think of some more but can not off the top of my head.

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Halv

04-20-2006, 04:49 AM

#2 (permalink)

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The single tell I will use online: villain shows a good hand after raising into the blinds 3 times in a row late in an SnG. This of course means he's trying to establish a table image saying "I only raise with good hands", and is good for me to know because I then know he's at least making _some_ thought out desicions. Of course, there will be the occasional "God damnit, why didn't you call my raise when I had AA"-show, but in general it means villain is thinking on some level.

Things like long response time can depend on a whole lot of things, including villain taking a piss, bad internet connection, slow thinker, etc. The other way around, if he instacalls or -raises, might be a tell, but I'm really not putting anything into it without a real read to back it up.

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Xo_Sirk_oX

04-20-2006, 11:06 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

This is have noticed all of these and applied on a game to game basis. I never implied looking at every single person.. Alot of why I feel some can not be accurate is because at PS alot of people will multi table, so that can effect the fastness, or lack there of as well.

Do not let the last play cloud the current.

Current Goal - Build a BR on PS from $5.81

Current BR $7.41

Warpe

04-20-2006, 11:16 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Betting patterns are the most reliable tell.

Xo_Sirk_oX

04-20-2006, 11:43 AM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Betting patterns are the most reliable tell.

I agree that this very easy to spot and generally something I take note of. This is also why I try and change things up quite often. Instead 3xBB as a " general rule " I try and shy from it and I will overbet often enough so that I give mixed signals.

Pingviini

04-20-2006, 01:12 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

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checking and then calling quick is most likely a (flush) draw.
taking longer than usually to check the hand to the PF raisor is usually a strong hand. cant think of more right now, I have a horrible hangover. DON'T DRINK KIDS!

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

jackvance

04-20-2006, 01:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

The thing is this.. you can look at the "signs", but often, you really need a bit evidence to see what it means.

Like:
- minbets/minraises: could mean a lot, depending on the player
- long pauze before action: they are thinking.. but this could be "should I bluff or not?", "should I slowplay my monster?", or he's thinking about possible draws, etc. Really depends what it means.. on the flop, the person, previous action, etc.

An example from yesterday. A guy that I had pegged as a calculating, thinking player, suddenly thought REALLY long before throwing a minbet on the turn. Typically, this is donk weakness right? But in this case, because of my read, I KNEW he was sitting on a monster! I simply knew. He was trying too hard to fake weakness when I knew he was too calculating and quick-to-act to play this silly for real. So I called, long pauze and check on the river. I had a decent hand but checked behind him on the river, and indeed he had a monster and was trying to induce a raise from me.

jackvance

04-20-2006, 01:37 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Oh and about the poll: I don't think there's one or two things to look at really. It's the combination of everything that slowly makes you see what kinds of players your opponents are.

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

Pelion

04-20-2006, 01:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Oh and about the poll: I don't think there's one or two things to look at really. It's the combination of everything that slowly makes you see what kinds of players your opponents are.

yea agreed. Id chose all of those. Then one i like the most is the guy who uses the auto check/fold button. If I check HU and the guy behind me instachecks then alot of the time ill minbet the next street with nothing. He usually instafolds in any sized pot. Cant remember doing it for a while but I used that alot at empire when i first started.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Renton

04-20-2006, 02:07 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

I see all of these a lot. The most reliable ones:

Fast action = strength a pretty large percentage of the time. Sometimes they act fast when check/calling and that typically means they have a good draw.

Name: useless IMO.

Autobet: 80% weakness/20% strength. This is a case by case. A LOT of people autopot garbage flops to try to pick up the pot w/ nothing. I have encountered several people that are bluffing every time they do it (duly noted).

Chat = useless IMO.

Slowness = Strength or Multitabler

jackvance

04-20-2006, 02:27 PM

#11 (permalink)

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I really have to disagree on the "chat=useless" Renton.. once a person says a few things in the chat, this is such a HUGE tell.. you know what's on his mind and how he perceives the game of poker. I wish everyone would blabber in the chat more, it would make my life so much easier lol

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

Renton

04-20-2006, 02:32 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

jack I consider what you're talking about to be a "read" not a "tell". A tell is a specific indicator of the strength of ones hand.

jackvance

04-20-2006, 02:35 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2006

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Oh, like that. Ok, then I agree

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

Warpe

04-20-2006, 02:45 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

jack I consider what you're talking about to be a "read" not a "tell". A tell is a specific indicator of the strength of ones hand.

So...I had two different opps at different times last week 'tell' me their hole cards in the chat. One said he had 89 on a 7JT flop while I held QQ. I pushed anyway, he called, I destacked him unimproved. Another opp said 'J' on a JJx flop. I had KK, same result. Read or tell?

Renton

04-20-2006, 02:50 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

jack I consider what you're talking about to be a "read" not a "tell". A tell is a specific indicator of the strength of ones hand.

If those players were smart they would have had the 89 and the J.

And you'da been stacked.

There was a hand that TalentedTom posted where he had turned the nuts and open pushed. Villain told Tom what he had, asking if he should call. Tom said "no, don't" and he called.

Warpe

04-20-2006, 03:04 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

There was a hand that TalentedTom posted where he had turned the nuts and open pushed. Villain told Tom what he had, asking if he should call. Tom said "no, don't" and he called.

Mom was right. Honesty pays.

jackvance

04-20-2006, 03:13 PM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

That's a tell.. they won't say it if they have it

And yeah, in a rare instance what they say can give away their real hand strenght, but that's more rare than common. If they talk in the chat however, you can see what their mental state is, how they look at poker, etc. So you can derive what they have indirectly, not directly.

However, this one thing that happened two weeks ago, I'll never forget it. It was so funny. A guy raises, I have 88 so I call.. and just as I do that, he says "all-in!!" in the chat. Ok, he got AA. Flop gives me a set. He raises, I reraise, KNOWING he'll push. The whole chat was filled with "hahaha donk!!" after the showdown :P

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

DaHorror

04-20-2006, 03:15 PM

#18 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

It's funny how
"Please don't call!" and
"You better fold."

mean the same thing - get the hell out

Whereas for the few who do it, giving out their specific hand means that they don't have that and are just pretending to.

I'm not sure about the consistency of it but
"Oh shit alksdfhoaiweu!*%&" after someone goes allin seems to mean 'fold' as well (saw this obvious tell on an AAA flop...doh the other player in the hand called with a FH and of course lost to oshit's quads).

Xo_Sirk_oX

04-20-2006, 03:33 PM

#19 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

I have seen most of the possible tells being used, I biggest thing is I never acually thought about them as tells.. I just (don't know how to say it ) kind of know... I just incorporated these things into the game plan against them. I often use them to my advantage as well. I will slow play crap as well as monsters. ( The slow/fast plays.) The reason I really looked in to the whole topic is because I notice the same 10-12 people all the time at the different tables I play.. ( Love PS for the avatar, " Oh its you again with your ugly kid staring at me " ) No offense if you have your child as your avatar

Sorry the poll is limited... This is just what the article had in it and I was not playing at the time so could not think of others...

Do not let the last play cloud the current.

Current Goal - Build a BR on PS from $5.81

Current BR $7.41

chardrian

04-20-2006, 03:56 PM

#20 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

I am a HUGE blabbermouth at the tables. However, I rarely talk about poker - and when I do, it is usually nonsense.

gabe

04-20-2006, 03:59 PM

#21 (permalink)

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by chardrian

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

I am a HUGE blabbermouth at the tables. However, I rarely talk about poker - and when I do, it is usually nonsense.

i love acting like the donk in chat during rebuy hour, then after break ill keep it going but start playing conservatively.

DaNutsInYoEye

04-20-2006, 05:43 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

I use "tells" consistently. I rely on one fairly heavily when deciding wether I'm going to c-bet or not.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

jackvance

04-20-2006, 08:08 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

There was a hand that TalentedTom posted where he had turned the nuts and open pushed. Villain told Tom what he had, asking if he should call. Tom said "no, don't" and he called.

Mom was right. Honesty pays.

Not always. A guy just asked me what I had after I pushed the river, he had trips. Remembering this thread I said "boat" and he folded. Damn :P

Warpe

04-20-2006, 08:32 PM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jackvance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

There was a hand that TalentedTom posted where he had turned the nuts and open pushed. Villain told Tom what he had, asking if he should call. Tom said "no, don't" and he called.

Mom was right. Honesty pays.

Not always. A guy just asked me what I had after I pushed the river, he had trips. Remembering this thread I said "boat" and he folded. Damn :P

Personally, I like: *shrug*

Stagemn

04-20-2006, 08:40 PM

#25 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 195

I just want to add that a pause coud trully mean strength if played right. For example the other night I had made a Ace high flush on the Turn. I checked and the guy made a bet into me and I called (was like 2/3rd pot size). Next he checks to me. I look and I know for a fact I have the strongest hand possibe. No full house or better possible. I paused for a good 10 seconds, made a small weakless bet (blocking bet), he pushed all in, and I insta-called. To bad I was on the shorter stack

jackvance

04-20-2006, 08:52 PM

#26 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 2,910

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stagemn

Did you read my hand example a couple posts up? My opponent doing exactly what you did made me sniff out that he had a monster, so I was able to avoid the mistake your opp made.

jackvance

04-20-2006, 08:55 PM

#27 (permalink)

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*nothing*

jackvance

04-20-2006, 08:55 PM

#28 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Personally, I like: *shrug*

Ok I'll try that next time, no more honesty

In all fairness though, I think he was going to fold anyway, he just wanted to know if I had a boat or a straight. Damn these 20NL folks being too smart

ekillian

04-20-2006, 10:02 PM

#29 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Betting patterns are the most reliable tell.

definitely

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http://ekillian.blogspot.com/

Xo_Sirk_oX

04-21-2006, 02:28 AM

#30 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

Thank You all for the replies. And thoughts. I had been incorporating them in the game plan, But I am, "using them" more so now then ever, It seems to be working

Do not let the last play cloud the current.

Current Goal - Build a BR on PS from $5.81

Current BR $7.41

Stagemn

04-21-2006, 09:01 AM

#31 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 195

From above....

It went something like this.........

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($2.50)
Button ($0.91)
SB ($2.45)
BB ($3.80)
UTG ($6.50)
UTG+1 ($1.75)
MP1 ($11.21)
Hero ($12.21)
MP3 ($4.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7

, A

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.02, 2 folds, Button calls $0.02, 1 fold, BB raises to $0.08, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $0.06, Button calls $0.06.

LIMPED IN ONLY TO A SLIGHTLY TIGHT TABLE IN MP.

Flop: ($0.27) T

, K

, 2

(3 players)
BB bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, Button raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.06.

I CALLED BOTH THE SMALL BET (HAD THE POT ODDS) AND MIN RAISE BASED ON IMPLIED ODDS.

Turn: ($0.63) Q

(3 players)
BB checks,

OK..... I OBVIUOSLY MADE THE BEST HAND POSSIBLE. ONLY THING TO KILL ME WAS ON THE RIVER A PAIRED CARD SHOWING AND SOMEONE HOLDING QQ, KK, TT, OR 22 (UNLIKELY BEING A TIGHT TABLE). THIS AT BEST GIVES ANY OPPONENT 10 OUTS (OR @ 20% CHANCE OF HITTING). I MAKE A SMALL BET AFTER A CHECK TO ME OF JUST OVER 1/3 POT SIZE WHICH WOULD ALSO COMMIT THE BUTTON.

Hero bets $0.24, Button raises to $0.48, BB folds,

I WAIT LIKE TEN TO FIFTEEN SECONDS SEEING BB FOLD. I CALCULATE MY RAISE TO PUT HIM ALL IN AND PUSH HIM IN AS I CAN NOW SEE HE IS ALREADY POT COMMITTED.

Hero raises to $0.72, Button calls $0.23 (All-In).

River: ($2.06) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

NO WORRIES HERE. IT'S DEFINETLY MINE NOW.

Results:
Hero has 7d Ad (flush, ace high).
Button has Jd 8d (flush, king high).
Outcome: Hero wins $2.05.

Final Pot: $2.06

IN SUMMARY, A PAUSE WILL MOST LIKELY MEAN WEAKNESS, BUT IF PLAYED CORRECTLY AND CAUTIOUSLY, IT IS A GREAT WAY TO GET SOMEONE TO CALL YOUR ALL IN PUSH.

jackvance

04-21-2006, 04:19 PM

#32 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

Stagemn, with all due respect but he also had a flush, it seems rather plausible that he would have gone all-in no matter what here. I mean, if you just quickly pushed after his reraise, I think he woulda called it too.

A couple days ago I thought myself to be a uper-clever poker genius to use tactics like this, but really, it might work once when noone knows who you are, but after that, I quickly found out that the more aware 20NL players (of which there are too much at unibet, sigh) see through you instantly. So now I use more subtle ways to cloud the real strength of my hand.

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