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Tasha
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08-16-2010, 02:39 PM
Post subject: Online poker tells
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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I've been looking around at what people have to say about this and came across three tells that I am interested in hearing your views on:
1) If they take a long time to make a check they probably have a weak hand.
2) Long wait and then a raise, they probably have a strong hand.
For insta moves (When the opponent sets an automatic play to occur as soon as it is their turn)
3) Instacheck/call: Has a weak hand and therefore isn't really interested in the play.
4) Instabet: Has a strong hand and has made a decision before seeing what everyone else does.
5) Timebank runs out: A multitable player who is paying more attention to what is going on other tables and is playing ABC poker. If they bet, they have a strong hand, so fold. If the check, make a bet because they will likely fold. If they call a raise they are on a draw.
The first two seem a bit unreliable to me. There must be many players who deliberately wait a specific amount of time for each move just to throw people off. Not sure about the others.
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rong
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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[ ]multitabler = abc poker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Betting patterns never fail unless you're up against an aware trickster. Timing tells are a bit overrated imo unless it's a pretty quick reaction, and even then I'd need to see someone do it a few times before I can categorize it as a tell.
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
I've been looking around at what people have to say about this and came across three tells that I am interested in hearing your views on:
1) If they take a long time to make a check they probably have a weak hand.
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Probably means they were thinking about betting which could mean they have a hand not good enough to value bet but good enough to check/call
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
2) Long wait and then a raise, they probably have a strong hand.
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Probably thought about folding a weak hand or calling w/ something that may be a close raise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
For insta moves (When the opponent sets an automatic play to occur as soon as it is their turn)
3) Instacheck/call: Has a weak hand and therefore isn't really interested in the play.
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Likely
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
4) Instabet: Has a strong hand and has made a decision before seeing what everyone else does.
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Who plays limit? But near instant probably just means they already have their hand planned, if theirs multiple people it's probably irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
5) Timebank runs out: A multitable player who is paying more attention to what is going on other tables and is playing ABC poker. If they bet, they have a strong hand, so fold. If the check, make a bet because they will likely fold. If they call a raise they are on a draw.
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This is pretty much all wrong.
Developing timing tell reads on different players > trying to use a bunch of set reads for every player.
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dneureiter
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 545
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the only one I think is glaringly wrong is
#3, like 3bet said If someone immediately bets (especially usueful for cbet flops) it's because they planned to bet. It doesn't mean they have a good / bad hand. they could be barreling a draw or air or they might be excited to get it in with a set.
As far as multitablers that's also not true. I've time banked 72o before in early. Maybe I banked when my hand misses the flop and I come back and cbet some Kxx flop. My timing just depends on other tables and thought time for that hand combined. It's not directly related to hand strength.
another useful one for the quick call, especially when raised, opponent is often on a draw / or other marginal stuff like you say.
but yea it depends on person specific reads and timing tells specific to that person.
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Tasha
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dneureiter
but yea it depends on person specific reads and timing tells specific to that person.
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The more I think about it the more this really makes sense. Thanks.
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Fieldsy
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Two Pair
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 48
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someone who goes all in 4 hands in a row (losing 100 total) in 25NL lol = maniac
This happened to me last night. This maniac lost 100 dollars in 4 straight hands.
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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Tales of poker is over that way, bro.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet
Developing timing tell reads on different players > trying to use a bunch of set reads for every player.
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^^^this
Any multi-tabler is likely to have random delays in their betting patterns. One thing you can notice with multi-tablers is, often, they highlight and focus on a table when they have a big hand. Their actions seem quicker (since they're scanning it out of order).
I believe it's Colin Moshman's book that says "3 times equals a read." Seeing a certain pattern once or twice is not enough to really trust it. But you can't wait forever. If you see a certain pattern three times in a session, jump on it and see if you're right.
Also, timing tells are under-rated in their importance to your winrate, especially by most micro-stakes players I've observed over the years (including myself). There are huge amounts of information available to you if you pay attention, which most of us (including me, in the past, at least) miss due to multi-tabling.
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Tasha
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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As a general rule, do multi-tablers take longer to respond most of the time because they lose time juggling the tables or do they tend to respond quickly because they play a set pattern most of the time and already know exactly what they are going to do?
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
As a general rule, do multi-tablers take longer to respond most of the time because they lose time juggling the tables or do they tend to respond quickly because they play a set pattern most of the time and already know exactly what they are going to do?
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Depends how many tables ppl are playing, but if they are 20tabling or similar, they will just act on the tables as they pop up (so they will act quickly). But if they face a tricky decision on one table, they may fall behind on several tables, timing down, but catch up within a minute or so, with a bunch of quick decisions.
So its hard to tell specifically if a long decision, is actually because they are thinking about this table specifically, or a hand on another table, causing a back up of timebanks on other tables. I guess if its the turn/river its likley to be thinking about that specific table, as it's unlikely you'll get that many tough turn/river spots on several tables at one time.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
As a general rule, do multi-tablers take longer to respond most of the time because they lose time juggling the tables or do they tend to respond quickly because they play a set pattern most of the time and already know exactly what they are going to do?
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There is no general rule. Some play robotic because that's what they do, others timeout because they're just playing too many goddamn tables. It's player dependent, as is nearly EVERYTHING in NLHE. I'd normally go on a rant now about how there's no cheat sheet, no quick fix to beat the game but it's been done time and time again so why bother.
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Tasha
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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^ You are right there isn't a quick and easy cheat sheet however poker is also all about trends. If something happens 60% of the time then that is good enough to make assumptions with because most of the time you will be right.
Every little information you can gain about your opponent is worth considering, that's all.
It just seems there are many people multi-tabling to their limit and that means they are bound to slip into some kind of routine just out of human nature.
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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Tasha, you need to stop focussing on vague generalizations , and start posting hands where you had difficulty. That will help you to learn what principles to apply in different circumstances. There is no default "correct" answer, and people will often disagree about the best way to play a hand (usually when its marginal either way).
By concentrating on the generalizations, you aren't learning to adapt to different board textures,opponents types, gaining reads or knowing if you are getting the corect reads on a player etc.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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It has been said, and I hate to be Mr. Obvious, but I think it's really important to realize this: Whenever someone acts very fast he didn't have to think about his action, or he has already made a plan on the previous street. When he acts slow there might be a couple of factors, so it's less reliable as a tell. I'll let you decide what that means. I put more weight on timing than I do on HUD stats for assigning ranges post-flop. I think it's extremely important, but it's also kind of hard to relate. Just keep making mental and physical notes on timing, and it will make sense eventually.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Tasha
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Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
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Thanks for all the responses. It's interesting how people read into things. I'll see how it goes.
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BigBetPoker_Melanie
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Two Pair
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 47
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1) If they take a long time to make a check they probably have a weak hand.
As occasional player, I can say that it is not necessarily to have a weak hand. It is possible that I'm playing multi-tables, or that I just left the desk, or that I'm on the phone.. so there are a lot of things that can cause someone to be slow to check, raise or fold in my opinion as occasional player...
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