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littleogre
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05-23-2010, 07:20 AM
Post subject: Ok i vilains flop c-raise range is x i'm a head of his range with x
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok it's easy figuring out what hands a hands equity is versus a pf range but what about post flop?
The following is real data not just pulled out of the air. I have a few k hands on some villains so i have been looking up their post flop play. Right in particular what the their flop raising range is. One such villain we'll call him ab has the following stats. Not including non showdown hands.if he raises the flop he has top pair 48 percent of the time and over pair or better 49 percent of the time. The other 1 percent is bluffing and under pairs. How do i figure my hands equity useing that info ?
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Knowing your hand kinda plays a part in figuring your hand's equity against that range, namean?
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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-> poker stove -> enter your hand, villain's range weighted 50-50 as per your description (ignore the 1%), board -> run
ez game
if you still don't get it then post a hand and get walked through
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
-> poker stove -> enter your hand, villain's range, board -> run
ez game
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yes but stove doesn't allow us to weight his ranges. Or if it does i don't know how to do it.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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enter 50% overpairs, 50% sets+. You define villain's range. Combo counting will be useful. Get in irc if you want help
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Knowing your hand kinda plays a part in figuring your hand's equity against that range, namean?
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ok me and villain see the flop Hu . I have QQ and the flop come tt9 rainbow i bet and villain raises. From dissecting his play in hem i know that this means he has tptk+ 80 percent of the time and a flush draw 20 percent of the time. Whats my equity? This isn't a quiz as i don't have the foggiest idea looking for help.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
ok me and villain see the flop Hu . I have QQ and the flop come tt9 rainbow i bet and villain raises. From dissecting his play in hem i know that this means he has tptk+ 80 percent of the time and a flush draw 20 percent of the time. Whats my equity? This isn't a quiz as i don't have the foggiest idea looking for help.
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ok, an example that makes sense please
rainbow flop and flush draws...
why not use:
i have QhQc, board Js7s4d, villain has TPTK+ 80%, 20% flush draw
in stove
board = Js7s4d
your hand = KhKc
villain = AsJc, QdQs, AhAc, 7c7d, As9s = 80% tptk + and 20% flush draws
but, even better, try putting villain on a range based on pre-flop, then this is easier
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ty for the help daven but something has me confused. I'll try stove in a little bit but i already have stox open. Ok if we say villain raises top pair 34% over pairs 50 percent under pairs 1 percent overs 1 percent and 2 pair+14 percent. Our hand is a flushdraw+oesd. It says our equity is less then 30 percent. How can that be? Combo draws are basically 50/50 versus anything less then a set. Given the data presented is he really redrawing on us that often?
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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post output from the program you are using
also, have you considered blockers? what is the board? is it 3 flush or two tone? etc.
based on your rainbow flush draw i think you need to post the details of any hand history you are playing with.
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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This seems kinda useless without a hand history, or specific situation. To say villain is raising with TP 80% of the time, and flush draws 20% of the time, seems pretty broad, as he isn't going to raise the same % of times on different board textures. That's simply his average. Your hand, the situation, the board texture, are all going to play a huge part in defining his range, and thus determining equity.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
This seems kinda useless without a hand history, or specific situation. To say villain is raising with TP 80% of the time, and flush draws 20% of the time, seems pretty broad, as he isn't going to raise the same % of times on different board textures. That's simply his average. Your hand, the situation, the board texture, are all going to play a huge part in defining his range, and thus determining equity.
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Well it isn't perfect but at the same time i don't think it's useless. Also i don't have enough hands on any given vilain to get so exact asto useboard texture in the equation. I have 25k mostly mined hands on a villain his stats are 14/4. Now 25k is a big db for one villain but if we select him in hem and filter to say he raised the flop our sample size is only 109 hands. Of which we only get to see his hand 46 times. I think the board was monotone once and doube suited 4 times. That doesn't mean we can't try and tinker with our hands versus his flop raising range just means we can't get a handle on how he play on paticular board textures.
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Wikkiwikki
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 115
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This is kinda silly - start with a range pre, position, our cards, stack sizes, game(6-max-FR)
Paint the whole picture. Thats why everyone asks for a hand history. Not just Q-Q 7-J-4 flop.
What happened pre-flop? Point is were missing a ton of info......
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre
Well it isn't perfect but at the same time i don't think it's useless. Also i don't have enough hands on any given vilain to get so exact asto useboard texture in the equation. I have 25k mostly mined hands on a villain his stats are 14/4. Now 25k is a big db for one villain but if we select him in hem and filter to say he raised the flop our sample size is only 109 hands. Of which we only get to see his hand 46 times. I think the board was monotone once and doube suited 4 times. That doesn't mean we can't try and tinker with our hands versus his flop raising range just means we can't get a handle on how he play on paticular board textures.
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fuck, he's 14-4. If he's raising flop in a hand against you then your play is easy. Put him on a range, noting that his range is epic strong. Figure out your equity, then go for it. You don't seem to get it. I don't think i have 25k hands on anyone. I make flop and turn decisions based on the stats i do have constantly. Just do it.
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