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losttrem
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11-09-2006, 03:53 PM
Post subject: nut flush vs. straight flush
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 180
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I once found a website about NLHE, that had a section about "sucker hands". It included valubale information, about how dangerous it is to draw to the lower end of a straight and other stuff beginners do wrong and tend to lose a lot of money with.
But there was one "sucker hand", which I am still not sure of. It was the nut flush vs. straight flush. So lets imagine the situation where you have Ace-x suited and you make your flush und the river. But the flush cards on the board are connected. You try to get as much chips from your opponent as paossible. You make a rather small raise and he pushes all in. Do you really put someone on a straight flush and fold in this situation? Couldnt he have made that same kind of play with a King high flush oder even a regular straight? Especially at smaller stakes?
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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At small stakes, I don't think you worry about this. At high stakes, you have to take it into consideration. If you are playing against someone who is very solid, and reluctant to put all their chips in when they could easily be beat, calling an all-in with an A-high flush with 2 possible one card straight flushes out there may be very foolish. Look at it from the opponent's perspective ... if he only has the K of the suit, he has the 4th nuts AND the top 3 hands only take one card. This is similar to pushing all in on a 4 flush board with no straight flushes possible with only the J of the suit. The only hands that call you beat you. For him to push with the K here, he would have to be hoping for you to call with the Q, J or T, or fold the A (a gamble he probably wouldn't take if he puts you on the nut flush). There are many players that would never do that, and if you have a good read, you can be pretty sure your A-high flush is trash.
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flotu
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 304
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If there's only three cards to the flush on the board it's just ridiculous to worry about a straight flush. It's absurd to call it a sucker hand.
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jiggajake
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 24
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obviously, id assume he meant 4 cards to a straight flush draw on the board
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cobere
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 336
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This happened to me playing live 100NL and I paid it off. To me, its equivalent to worrying about set over set. You just pay it and move on. No way I am folding a nut flush if the board isn't paired.
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On moving up, properly rolled:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
You don't know if you're J-Fish or A Fish until you try.
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losttrem
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jiggajake
obviously, id assume he meant 4 cards to a straight flush draw on the board
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No the guy who wrote the article didnt mean that:
"Nut Flush v. Straight Flush
Another great way to lose a lot of money is to hold the Ace of any suit in your hand, and draw to a flush, while not watching out for a straight flush. You have an Ace/Jack suited, and the table shows 8-6-5 of the same suit. You can be beat by someone with a seven of your suit, plus either a 9 or 4."
Which is really kinda absurd I guess. Since I would have most probably raised preflop with AJ suited if no one else had raised. And I dunno, but I wouldnt put the other guy on 9/7 or 7/4 suited.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Without reads I am prepared to felt any two-card flush.
Laying down a nut flush because of a possible straight flush is not something I would even begin to consider. For every time you run into a straight flush there will be a bunch of times you stack a lower flush or a set.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by complete-dildo
"Nut Flush v. Straight Flush
Another great way to lose a lot of money is to hold the Ace of any suit in your hand, and draw to a flush, while not watching out for a straight flush. You have an Ace/Jack suited, and the table shows 8-6-5 of the same suit. You can be beat by someone with a seven of your suit, plus either a 9 or 4."
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Also. If you have AA and the board comes up A44 it's often not worth betting because your opponent might have 44.
The writer is clearly confused because there's no way you can have AJs with the table showing 8-6-5 of the same suit and "draw to a flush".
You have a made hand.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
If you don't have AA, fold preflop.
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ZOMG I think the writer of that article came here and fixed your post!
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