www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Not taking my initiative postflop in 3bet pot

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

JoeHaw

12-03-2009, 08:46 PM Post subject: Not taking my initiative postflop in 3bet pot

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: IL

Posts: 186

I've noticed sometimes I play my AK hands like this just because I feel like opponents spew a lot in 3bet pots, like to bet when checked to, and in general just c/f JJ QQ KK on A high flops or turn them into bluffs. I feel like I get the same kind of value out AQ AJ and also allow players to bluff KQ KQS KJ at me.

Well here's the hand, I think putting the rest in on the river is really bad. I guess I just thought it was going in anyways but AQ is a big part of his range and maybe sometimes he checks it and if he's got air ever he can fold so yeah I don't know why I did it.

$0.05/$0.10 Ante $0.02 Deep No Limit Holdem
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG vadimoso ($10.60)
CO HarveyBirdman81 ($99.10)
BTN pedrocologne ($21.29)
SB Koitkann ($36.62)
BB Hero ($15.41)

Pre-Flop: ($0.25, 5 players) Hero is BB

2 folds, pedrocologne raises to $0.40, Koitkann calls $0.35, Hero raises to $1.60, pedrocologne calls $1.20, Koitkann calls $1.20

Villains are 21/15 and 30/18 respectively but its like 60 hands for the first and 30 for the second. Their AFs are both under two, but I didn't really think that mattered considering the small sample.

Flop:

($4.90, 3 players)
Koitkann checks, Hero checks, pedrocologne bets $4.90, Koitkann folds, Hero calls $4.90

I feel like you guys are going to tell me this is really bad and give me a good reason, but as of now I'm thinking I'm only getting value out of AQ AJ and I'd rather keep other worse hands in the pot. Raise flop? I know I played this hand super passive idk how bad it is. I guess most villains can't fold AQ AJ here but I figured there was a really good chance he was turning JJ QQ KK into a bluff for some reason or bluffing w some other random hand. I have trouble with giving people credit for an actual hand a lot.

Turn:

($14.70, 2 players)
Hero checks, pedrocologne bets $4, Hero calls $4

I feel like this shouldve definetly been a shove if flop wasn't. He's probably not double barrelling for this amount, it looks like value and I have good equity against his value range.

River:

($22.70, 2 players)
Hero goes all-in $4.89, pedrocologne calls $4.89

This is just bad i think. C/c right?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

Dex

12-03-2009, 10:14 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Bringing the mind home.

Posts: 172

The single worst aspect of this hand is getting to the river in such a large pot with so little behind. That alone pretty much makes the river card irrelevant, c/c is awful cuz villain is potstuck to always call it off if you push so do that! You're essentially shoving $4.89 into $27.59 knowing he has to call, and you don't want villain to check behind something dumb like AJ. So don't even consider anything else.

Checking the flop sometimes here isn't bad, I haven't really played on any sites that have a bet pot button, so I don't know whether people mash it because they can't/won't size bets whether they have a hand or a bluff, or if this guy is using it because he's got a hand he seriously likes. But in a 3bet, 3way pot and the flop is potted when checked to, you have to think he's coming along if you shove so that's a pretty straight forward way to play the hand. It's a 3x raise so that part seems in your favour.

If you know villain well enough to think he'll fold to a flop raise but will bet the turn if you call, then calling the flop has a little more merit. Since you don't, shoving the flop seems ideal and keeps it simple, especially with a flush draw out there.

The turn is essentially just a minraise to get it in, so really there's no good reason at all that you got to the river with a bet left.

Best thing you can take from this hand in future is to pay more attention to SPR (Stack To Pot Ratio), and how to set it up/manipulate it.

argash

12-03-2009, 10:29 PM

#3 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2009

Location: Austin

Posts: 98

FFS bet your GD hand

surviva316

12-04-2009, 12:20 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms

Posts: 1,625

surviva316 will become famous soon enough

your 3b sizing is too small for my taste given stack sizes. 3b/4b sizing isn't really something that should be thought of as standard sizes and so forth so much as trying to raise big enough to price out implied odds hands yet small enough so that it's believable that you could be bluffing here. the lower the stakes, the more important the former and the less important the latter. your sizing gives him 14.8:1 odds OTB in a 3b pot with a probable fish left to act, so i personally would snap your 3b with 22, 54s, etc. 1.80-1.90 would be preferable, leaning towards the larger size 'cause it's 10nl.

i'd def cbet the flop though. for one, people float A-high flops a lot (although this might be rare at 10nl in 3b 3-way pots). for two, you're def more likely to get value from JJ-KK if you bet like 3.90, than you are by c/c'ing. for three i'd bet a lot of money that SB is a fish who calls too much, so go ahead and get value from KQ, KJ, QJ, 98s, FD's, A8/A9 and so forth. for four even if we were heads up, AQ/AJ make up more of the reggy looking dude's range than AT and sets given hand combos and preflop play. so, in short, bet flop 3.80/shove turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BooG690

I just wanted to share singing vaginas.

spoonitnow

12-04-2009, 05:02 AM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Seems fine to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:39 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Beginners Circle

Not taking my initiative postflop in 3bet pot

Play for FREE and practice your game at...