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Darby

11-28-2004, 06:24 PM Post subject: Not my fault right?

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 209

***** Hand History for Game 1233755455 *****
NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:7505086 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, November 28, 14:18:38 EDT 2004
Table Table 12208 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 5: goldengirl56 ( $870 )
Seat 4: gt281h80 ( $745 )
Seat 1: timsim00 ( $2005 )
Seat 6: trckynicke ( $1675 )
Seat 8: mule0329 ( $785 )
Seat 3: ROB14329 ( $1380 )
Seat 2: shadyarty ( $540 )
Trny:7505086 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to gt281h80 [ Jh Ac ]
trckynicke folds.
mule0329 calls [15].
timsim00 calls [15].
shadyarty calls [15].
ROB14329 folds.
gt281h80 calls [5].
goldengirl56 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, As, Ks ]
gt281h80 bets [50].
Pot was 75 chips and leading off was hoping to get at least one call but no raise
goldengirl56 folds.
mule0329 calls [50].
timsim00 folds.
shadyarty calls [50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
gt281h80 bets [225].
Pot sized bet hoping no one will chase a flush to see the river card
mule0329 folds.
shadyarty calls [225].
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
Shit. I check, hoping she checks behind me. Is that not the way to play this river when you opponent completes their flush? I cant see betting cause she might push, but If I think she has a flush, why call?
gt281h80 checks.
shadyarty is all-In.
gt281h80 calls [250].
gt281h80 shows [ Jh, Ac ] two pairs, aces and jacks.
shadyarty shows [ Qs, 2s ] a flush, ace high.
shadyarty wins 1175 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high.

Maybe I shoudnt have called on the river, but Ive been known to not be aboe to get away from a hand like this

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LeFou

11-28-2004, 08:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

kinda tough laydown, but at least a little bit your fault

low straights and high straights are possible, a better 2-pair, and of course the usual sets.

Probably would've been worth it to bet bigger on the flop -- lose some extra bets maybe but avoids this exact situation.

frankie

11-28-2004, 11:47 PM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 8

I would say it is your fault. Ist mistake, you let everyone limp in. If you raised it enough that Q2 woulda folded, the odd of getting a flush is 7.2%. Thats without seeing any board cards. Second, when you flop top two, with the flush out there you have to go strong. You bet $50 into a $75 pot from early position. One call, and then when it came to shady it was a total of $175, so the pot odds (28% of the pot v. 37% flush) means shady calls. Then on the river, you bet 225, wich is a good bet. It was a 50% pot v. 21% flush, but shady was pretty short at this time, so getting desperate. Then when you checked on the river you showed weakness, which means that shady knew you were scared of the flush. Shady went all in. You shoulda never called. Even if you thought Shady was bluffing at it, what else could shady have had? Think about it. Limped preflop, called flop, and turn.

Over all you tried to slowplay and lost. It happens, you coulda done other things, but ehh, thats poker.

elanto

11-29-2004, 01:27 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,117

I agree with Frankie in most of the things he says.

You made two mistakes, the first one being limping with AJ, RAISE MAN!

Your bet on the flop was too passive, i liked your bet on the turn but you shouldnt have called that all in on the river, yu knew she had the flush..why call?

well i guess those were three mistakes but who cares

-anto

<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.

TylerK

11-29-2004, 01:38 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

I agree, top two pair is nice, but with a scary board like that, you have to make people pay to draw. If everyone folds on the flop, take your small pot and be happy with it.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

Darby

11-29-2004, 03:24 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 209

Maybe Im wrong but you guys would raise AJ off in the small blind with 3 limpers?

AJ off seems weak for that...?

elanto

11-29-2004, 04:53 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,117

Personally I would, if they are limping it means they dont have a good enough hand to raise, unless they are slowplayin a monster, by raising you will eliminate weak hands that may beat you, like Q2..

-anto

<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.

LeFou

11-29-2004, 06:32 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darby

Maybe Im wrong but you guys would raise AJ off in the small blind with 3 limpers?

I understand completely Darby. For every post where you're talking about AJo and someone says you should've raised it, there's a post where you're talking about AJo and someone says it's not worth playing in the SB.

The real, essential things in this hand are:
-is opp the sort of player who would put a Great Many Chips in there without a set or better?
-You said: "Ive been known to not be able to get away from a hand like this" and this makes me think you've got a leak in your game that you are aware of.

Unless there's some special thing that makes 2 pair look really good (e.g. rainbows and uncoordinated ranks) then 2 pair is not that good. Top 2 pair is pretty good in these situations, but not AJ with a K out

TylerK

11-29-2004, 07:34 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darby

Maybe Im wrong but you guys would raise AJ off in the small blind with 3 limpers?

AJ off seems weak for that...?

What hands have you dominated in this situation? AA, AK, AQ, KK, etc? Any one of these hands would have raised you.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

michael1123

11-29-2004, 09:25 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

I'd have raised to at least 60 preflop with all the limpers. Don't expect players to be limping in with hands that dominate you, especially in a $5 SNG. Then I'd bet the flop pretty strong with all the draws out there. All in on the turn if you're not raised on the flop. If you are raised, shove in. From the preflop action its very doubtful they have AK or a set, so the only realistic hand that'd beat you is the straight. Your short stacked, gotta go for it.

If you don't raise preflop, I'd check raise the flop, looking to go all in there or on the turn depending on the action.

I'm looking to go all in before the river not really because I'm scared of them calling with a draw, but because I'm hoping they'll call me on some crazy draw and I can double up off of them, particularly on the turn if its safe.

dalecooper

11-29-2004, 02:09 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I would definitely raise with AJo from most any seat. I'm not talking a monster raise, but enough to weed out the Q2 people. The longer I play Hold 'Em, the more inclined I am to raise pre-flop from any position with any playable hand. The only exceptions are middle suited connectors and low pocket pairs - hands that I feel have a higher implied value if you hit your hand, and what you tend to end up with is strong, so it's worth it to let more people in from the start.

Back to your AJo, with three or four limpers I'd raise two or three times the big blind. A raise equal to the big blind just builds a pot. No one will fold. Any more than 2-3x, though, you're really sticking your neck out for a fairly soft hand. So I think maybe 3x BB is appropriate here, and not so aggressive that you can't get away from it if you have to.

I also agree that your raise on the flop was too passive. I'd go close to pot-sized with a board like that. You want to make people looking for a straight or flush afraid to stay in. Then on the turn, when it's a blank, fire out something huge - twice the pot. Anyone still drawing at that point has to really think about calling you. Calling that final all-in bet... I understand why you did it, but you already know you shouldn't have. I can safely say though that I've done the same thing way too many times.

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