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Robb
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02-15-2008, 04:10 AM
Post subject: The Noobie "Never do this" List
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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I started this thread and got some positive feedback.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...19.html#643445
So I thought I would try one more. Never do this stupid crap. Never.
1. Never, and I mean never dammit, never show your cards.
I love it when villains show their hole cards. Usually, I just made a cbet against someone the HUD stats showed to be weak-tight, and usually they show me a hand that was ahead of mine. They improve my confidence in two areas: my reads are accurate, and my analysis of them being a donk-fish dumbass was correct.
Remember this, every time you show me your cards, the HH goes into PT. When and if you ever seem like a decent player, I'll be looking at every big hand you played. If you show your cards when you don't have to, you just make my read on your game pathetically easy. Even if you show those cards in a hand I didn't play.
2. Never slow play.
This was from will in the thread linked above.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
honestly i think the best advice anyone can give for players at micro stakes is NEVER EVER EVER slow play. all it does is make you lose money. occasionally it works, but not very likely.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Excellent point. Virtually every time I've slept with Miss Slow Play, I've woken up hating myself in the morning, ready to chew my own arm off to get away from that coyote ugly bitch.
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You hit a set of kings at NL10. You want to check the flop. Don't. Just bet right out. If you don't, you'll be wanting to chew your own arm off, too.
3. Never tell the truth about your hole cards.
This goes with #1. If villains cry because everyone else is showing hands and I'm not, I start "telling" them what I had to pacify them. Or chatting "good fold" or something misleading. But I always think about the hand and try to misdirect them by offering some reasonable hole cards for the way the hand played out. But I almost never do this. When I do, trust me, I'm lyin'.
4. Never give poker advice while you're playing, not even bad advice.
I make notes on the "table pros" who chat relentlessly about hands, ranges, pot odds. They usually give a VERY clear picture of their thinking and level with a few comments. When they critique my play, I chat something like "pot odds? what are those?" and let them give me a lesson. Another fav: "How would you have played that hand?"
By the way, the reason you're at FTR is to discuss hands here instead of at the table. If something interesting happened, post it here to get feedback. Don't educate you're opponents about what you were thinking.
5. Never berate bad players when they suck out against your great hand.
This is classic noobie tilt. Type "nh" and see what they do. If they type "ty", they're probably donk-fish. If they don't reply, watch out. They're probably just smart enough to know they were outplayed, and might learn something from it. This isn't original - Phil Gordon says it best: "Don't tap the aquarium."
If you don't understand how to deal with bad beats, you'll never last in this game. Bad beats are what make poker work and keep the fish swimming toward the sharks. If you're a good player, you LOVE bad beats, or at least don't mind them for more than a second.
I'm just listing the things I see all the time at NL10 that give me an advantage. I would like for others to chime in and offer some more "nevers" for the list.
Good luck at the tables.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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cliff notes on robb's post: dont chat period.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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I have in the past sometimes(maybe once or twice) on a turn of river semi bluff when they are doing the whole 30second decision, told them I would show my cards, and when they fold I don't, this tilts them HARD. Not really share if its +ev though, I tihnk in the long run all chat is pretty dumb unless it is saying hi to a FTRer.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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This is related to SNGs, but there are general points that relate to ring games as well. It's stickied in the SNG forum:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...-0-t41170.html
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Hawk
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
cliff notes on robb's post: dont chat period.
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There are some times to chat. If you've got a big fish at the table who obviously loves to chat, but nobody is responding, keep up a friendly non-strategic conversation to allow them to keep having fun.
I don't know how many times I've seen terrible players leave a table because nobody is talking.
They are here to have fun, help them out. They will be helping you meet your goals as well. Everyone wins!
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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But then you talk to the big fish and he thinks "I really like this guy I'll give him respect." Then he folds to your monster.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Best chat ever:
"nh"
when a fish sucks out. You gotta encourage those guys if you want them to keep reloading.
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Just playing to improve.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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chat is good. chat about poker is bad.
also I love "trust me, I'm lyin'."
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Here's another "line" on chat for the multitablers out there:
Hero: nh
Villain: ty thought u were a bot
Hero: i am a bot
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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Quote:
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This goes with #1. If villains cry because everyone else is showing hands and I'm not, I start "telling" them what I had to pacify them. Or chatting "good fold" or something misleading. But I always think about the hand and try to misdirect them by offering some reasonable hole cards for the way the hand played out. But I almost never do this. When I do, trust me, I'm lyin'
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I usually just tell them I had "pocket elevens" or something similar.
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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WillburForce
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SW London
Posts: 516
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Back to the "don't do this" list
DON'T PLAY DRUNK. repeat DON'T PLAY DRUNK. This seems obvious to most but I've lost 3 bankrolls (only of about £400-£500 - I say only, this is a lot) playing hammered.
By all means have a few beers or a bottle of wine whilst playing, but don't get back from the pub after a 5-6 hours drinking and play poker. It only ends in tears. 
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WillburForce
Back to the "don't do this" list
DON'T PLAY DRUNK. repeat DON'T PLAY DRUNK. This seems obvious to most but I've lost 3 bankrolls (only of about £400-£500 - I say only, this is a lot) playing hammered.
By all means have a few beers or a bottle of wine whilst playing, but don't get back from the pub after a 5-6 hours drinking and play poker. It only ends in tears. |
I find playing whilst tired equally (if not more) harmful to my roll. Every time I have donked off large portions of my roll it has been late at night / early morning when I'm physically and mentally exhausted.
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
But then you talk to the big fish and he thinks "I really like this guy I'll give him respect." Then he folds to your monster.
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yeah that is the fucking worst thing ever when a fish likes you.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jibalob
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WillburForce
Back to the "don't do this" list
DON'T PLAY DRUNK. repeat DON'T PLAY DRUNK. This seems obvious to most but I've lost 3 bankrolls (only of about £400-£500 - I say only, this is a lot) playing hammered.
By all means have a few beers or a bottle of wine whilst playing, but don't get back from the pub after a 5-6 hours drinking and play poker. It only ends in tears. |
I find playing whilst tired equally (if not more) harmful to my roll. Every time I have donked off large portions of my roll it has been late at night / early morning when I'm physically and mentally exhausted. |
Don't play sick. I did once and dumped a few buy-ins before I realized how crappy I was playing.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Never subscribe to generalizations about things you should always or never do in poker.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Never subscribe to generalizations about things you should always or never do in poker.
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Like this one: always use proper bankroll management. 
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Never subscribe to generalizations about things you should always or never do in poker.
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Like this one: always use proper bankroll management. |
There are always instances when it's correct to play with a larger portion of your bankroll than regular bankroll management would normally allow.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Never subscribe to generalizations about things you should always or never do in poker.
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Like this one: always use proper bankroll management. |
There are always instances when it's correct to play with a larger portion of your bankroll than regular bankroll management would normally allow. |
I totally agree that poker is one big grey area, not black and white. Just trying to generate some interest for the post, and "here are some things you should almost never do" didn't sound as catchy.
By the way, I'm just curious, do any of the top FTR regs EVER show cards for free? I've only done it accidentally, and cursed myself for being a bonehead.
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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If I have been 3betting and rring alot, I may show a good hand somewhere in there to generate some respect (extremely rarely).
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Never subscribe to generalizations about things you should always or never do in poker.
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Like this one: always use proper bankroll management. |
There are always instances when it's correct to play with a larger portion of your bankroll than regular bankroll management would normally allow. |
I totally agree that poker is one big grey area, not black and white. Just trying to generate some interest for the post, and "here are some things you should almost never do" didn't sound as catchy.
By the way, I'm just curious, do any of the top FTR regs EVER show cards for free? I've only done it accidentally, and cursed myself for being a bonehead. |
I do quite a bit, especially if I have a marginal hand and I think that if I check through on the turn he'll bet worse hands often.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
By the way, I'm just curious, do any of the top FTR regs EVER show cards for free? I've only done it accidentally, and cursed myself for being a bonehead.
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I don't count myself amongst the top FTR regs, but I never ever show cards, I have automuck set on all my poker site clients. The only time I switch it off is when I'm playing the SNG experiments or other games against other FTR posters.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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I never show. One of the funniest things I see is guys that don't beleive I have the nuts and ask me to show if they fold. Why would I agree to show him the nuts if he folds?
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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6. Never 2 barrel air without a GOOD read on villain (and overs).
7. Never 3bet thin without a GOOD read on villain.
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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The only time I show cards for free is if I am in the BB holding AA or KK and everyone (including the SB) folds to me. It makes them all happy they folded, and it really doesn't matter.
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