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non showdown winnings suck stats check plz

  
 
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Pig_Vomit
Old 10-01-2008, 07:29 AM     Post subject: non showdown winnings suck stats check plz #1 (permalink)  
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...help
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duder
Old 10-01-2008, 07:49 AM #2 (permalink)  

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duder
My graph of this stat looks the same. Do tell how do you get this up to break even or even positive!!!
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daven
Old 10-01-2008, 10:09 AM #3 (permalink)  
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daven will become famous soon enough
 your stats look good and you're winning at a good rate.
If you could have a positive return from non-showdown pots but be a net loser, that would be bad - right?

There are lots of ways to win poker. The weaker the games you're playing in, the less you should be focusing on non-showdown winnings (fullring, anyway).

However, non-showdown pots. Some questions:
1) are you c-betting too much? in inappropriate situations?
2) are you bet folding too much? especially rivers where check-call and check-fold are often forgotten lines.
3) are you giving up one street too late?
4) are you forgetting to take free cards with draws?
5) is your betsizing too weak?
6) are you identifying the players who don't fold? those that fold easily?
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Pig_Vomit
Old 10-01-2008, 11:02 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
However, non-showdown pots. Some questions:
1) are you c-betting too much? in inappropriate situations?
2) are you bet folding too much? especially rivers where check-call and check-fold are often forgotten lines.
3) are you giving up one street too late?
4) are you forgetting to take free cards with draws?
5) is your betsizing too weak?
6) are you identifying the players who don't fold? those that fold easily?
I definetly have problems with 1 and 6.

Would it be terrible if i simply stopped c betting? Only for a little while but this way i could relearn how to c bet and do it for a reason instead for firing off random shots at everyone.

could you explain #3

thx for the help
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jolub
Old 10-01-2008, 07:07 PM #5 (permalink)  
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jolub
I don't understand the graph. But I do understand 4-of-a-Kind's comments which are points I need to take into account when playing. Thanks for the response.
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Old 10-01-2008, 07:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I'd give you help but I saw you on my tables

j/k
as far as cbetting goes, imagine what your opponent holds

say your opponent limped in from EP, and you raised from the button
the flop comes 3-5-8 two tone
the problem with cbetting that flop is that if your opponent limped 76s or 99 he's not giving up just yet

so if you're holding AKo you might want to check behind the flop because you know you'll get calls a lot of the time, especially if your opponent is loose enough to call with a hand like 77 in that spot
instead, if you see a safe turn card (better, if you improve to a pair of kings or aces) you can fire at the pot on the turn if your opponent checks to you again

this "delayed" c-bet is more successful when your opponent has a weak draw since your opponent might not pay to see just one more card

but it's opponent-specific
when the difference between PFR and VPIP is very low he might have a small pp more often and not suited connectors in which case you SHOULD bet that flop since he will fold 77 or lower underpairs, while a really loose opponent might have a lot more draws in his range
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Clar17y
Old 10-01-2008, 08:54 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Clar17y
From your graph it looks like you only play small pot poker.
This is fine if it's what you like to do and it works for you (as it seems to be). What i would say is that people that have non-showdown winnings higher normally have a more fluctuating showdown line because they make plays that sometimes get called by better hands, or they make that really thin call on the river to gain information to use later.

I'm trying to get my win w/o showdown up aswell and you'd be surprised at how often people do try to steal pots from you or just turn over rubbish (at 25NL i play).
If the player is a tight reg then try to do things that would scare them, 3bet them in position, raise their cbets on dry low flops, float their bets sometimes to take the pot away from them later. (I don't advocate doing these things all the time as people just get fed up with you and call you down regardless)

It's important to get a feel for each player and what you think they are capable of. Some people really play ABC and there's a way to exploit that. But some people like to make bets and take pots away from you and you have to find a way to exploit them just like any other player.

Clar
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Vrax
Old 10-01-2008, 10:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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It's okay if you play in loose passive games.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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jyms
Old 10-01-2008, 11:08 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
It's okay if you play in loose passive games.
This was my problem as well. I play on looser sites and trying to get that line to be even or run up meant I needed to be more aggressive. Non showdown pots means taking down hands before the river, but on looser sites players call more and farther into hands. If they won't fold, your better to have it run down and jsut value bet the hell out of them and get a ton at showdown. If your AF is high and your C betting enough then move on to other problems.
YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]
 
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