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deadgoat

08-04-2006, 06:57 PM Post subject: NL starting hands suggestions

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 49

I've found these to reference any one know of others

http://www.performpoker.com
19 hand chart

http://www.unknownpoker.com/articles...ting-hands.htm
15 hand chart
* Any Pair. (There are 13 possible pairs you can start with, 22's through AA's. The higher the better.)
* Any Ace-King or Ace-Queen.

http://www.pokerlistings.com/no-limi...starting-hands
25 hand chart

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andy-akb

08-04-2006, 07:44 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

Im going to try not to come off as very harsh here, but I think there is a point that needs to be made.

Ive been reading a lot of your posts recently and they all seem to be asking for a very cut and dry straightforward answer about something that cant be answered that simply. Questions like "Are SCs profitable?" "When should I fold a set?" "What is the most profitable VPIP?" And while your desire to learn is great, your expectations are not. There is no simple answer to these questions, if there were then we would just be trading blinds at the tables and nobody would be making any money. The best answer to your posts is almost always "it depends," because there is no set in stone answer to these questions.

So Im sorry, Im not going to provide you with a hand chart, etc. but I will reccomend some things that if you actually dedicate your time to will help you more than any chart will.

Check out the threads in this sticky at 2+2:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post3239210

Also look at some of the stickies here at FTR. Get some books, No Limit Hold'em: Theory and Practice is a good one and that really helps to drive home that poker is all about situations. Post your thoughts on peoples hands here, dont worry about being "right," its the process that matters and will help you develop the train of thought that will turn you into a thinking player.

Really though, you cant simply expect to follow a guide or some rules and kill the games. That will work at the lower levels [AOKs 19 hand strategy and Im sure some others produce a nice profit at the microlimits] but if you want to actually start making some money you are going to need to think for yourself and understand what you are doing. The sooner you lose the crutches the sooner you will start actually learning this game, but you are going to have to dedicate yourself to it and not expect everything to be spoonfed to you.

LeFou

08-04-2006, 07:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Here's a nice tight one:
http://www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html

Warpe

08-04-2006, 07:55 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Canuckistan

Posts: 3,905

Are you still 16-tabling? I don't see you opening up your game much if you are.

Vrax

08-04-2006, 08:13 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

I'm currently trying out hands from Sklanshy's new book.

AA, KK, Slick usually raise
Big Chick, lower pairs, sooted broadways, sooted connectors, sooted Aces - us. limp, sometimes open raise or raise1 limper
other weak/medium hands like Q8s, K9s, J8s: usually fold or raise big field as semibluff

KJ, AJ, QJ offsuit etc. arte supposed to be total crap and are not recommended to play unless from late position.

Lots of limping and smallball play, but so far it works fine.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

johnnyBuz

08-04-2006, 08:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Philly, Pa

Posts: 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

Here's a nice tight one:
http://www.kleptic.com/poker/nlhands.html

i like the groupings here, i just don't agree with all of the analysis.

group 3 says to limp any position and fold the flop if you dont flop a set. theres obviously tons of value lost in that practice. raising 88-TT occasionally to mix up your play should be a start, and not giving up so easily to single overcard flops or when you have overpairs just try to take it down on the flop.

group 6 optional hands: NEVER call raises? hmm in position in multiway pots i'm calling standard raises with all of those hands except KJs.

Liter of cola.

LeFou

08-04-2006, 08:32 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

yeh, it's a bit of a nit chart.

Jimmy Mac

08-05-2006, 01:04 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Drinking your milkshake.

Posts: 950

Quote:

Check out the threads in this sticky at 2+2:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0#Post3239210

Great stuff in this here. Be nice if we had a SSNL digest over here, and some poo-bah posts (or straight flush posts or whatever).

IHodge7

08-06-2006, 11:00 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 15

ok i like the kleptic groupings and the anyalis' wernt the greatest, but the groupings were very nice...thanks for that.[/quote]

BIG SLICK.

strawman

08-06-2006, 11:38 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 207

Let the table be your guide. I go into a table now with a huge range and flexibility and tighten the reigns depending on how the table regards me. The hands I tend to shy away from are trouble hands or hands that I misplay horrible on the flop. Starting hands are the bread and butter, but the flop is the meat and potatos.

Krieg1984

08-07-2006, 08:09 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 93

Remember that the stack sizes of your prospective postflop opponents make certain hands playable while making others unplayable.

Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."

jameseyb

08-08-2006, 11:27 AM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

A friend and I sat down a while ago to try and come up with a basic starting hands grid and ended up with this:

It's a very tight style of play and was originally based around getting me to play a more conservative game. However, it makes no assumptions about reads you have on players and what to do post-flop. That sort of thing was left to me and the experience I was getting from playing and learning.

It was based on a modified Sklansky system from computer modelling and also from common sense. I still use it these days sometimes, but I'm learning my own style of play and it's more flexible than this sheet really allows.

J

***************************************
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jameseyb
http://gunsonfilm.blogspot.com/
***************************************

Tom42

08-08-2006, 02:25 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 110

Quote:

Originally Posted by jameseyb

A friend and I sat down a while ago to try and come up with a basic starting hands grid and ended up with this:

Intresting approach, I see a few problems though :

- lumping AK and AQ together is not good IMO, they play very different especially in the reraising, calling raises department.

- Calling raises with AJ and KQ is a big no no for me unless I have a read that raizor raises light.

- I would generally reraise QQ and probably JJ depending on the circumstance.

- I don't play Ax unless its sooted

- there's a difference between 99 and 22

- I love sooted one-gappers

But that's the problem with most charts isn't it, it just can't account for different situations. Nice try though.

jameseyb

08-08-2006, 08:11 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

Like I said, it was designed to give me a base and keep me out of trouble whilst I was learning. We had a lot or arguments about where things should go (I originally wanted only about four/five groups of hands, he wanted a lot more) and this was a major compromise, although I'm getting a nagging feeling that he never really agreed with it!

Now I still refer to it if I feel a bit hesitant, but my play is now getting more instinctive. I'm playing more hands if I fell I can, and fewer if the table doesn't allow it. Hell, Ax can be played from anywhere if you know you can a) get away with it or b) limp in because the table is very passive. Of course sooted makes a difference when you hit, but given "the curse" that I have with suited cards...

99 and 22 different? In many ways yes, but in many ways no. They're rated as limpers in the hope I catch a set or better. 99 and 88 may be worth a raise if in LP if there are only a couple of limpers, but not much else.

J

***************************************
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jameseyb
http://gunsonfilm.blogspot.com/
***************************************

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