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biondino

06-05-2005, 12:05 AM Post subject: NL Checklist

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

(usual apologies if this topic has already been covered, but hell, I need to vent)

Either variance is catching up with me in a big way, or I'm inconsistent to the point of mental instability. Yesterday was my biggest ever up day playing NL hold'em; today was my biggest down (and yes, the trough is deeper than the peak was high).

I can spot certain things in my play that aren't working for me. I need to be ultra-sure of how to play pre-flop - Ax is giving me nightmares when I'm dealt it, and those oh-so-enticing suited connectors. I need to be sure what to fold on the flop, and what to push - calling is creeping back into my game (despite my consistent success coming when I'd all but excised it), and unmade flops with KA, say (I know there's already masses of discussion on that very hand/subject). If you push pre-and post-flop, is there ever any excuse not to take it to the river?

ANYWAY, getting to the point. I was hoping that between us, this forum could come up with some kind of handy checklist of mental processes to go through on each and every hand. With my current level of confidence, I don't feel up to this on my own.

So - feel free to add any and all things that you mentally consider. Ideally this thread would become a definitive guide to low-stakes NL hold'em - at the very least I'd love it to be able to help me get back on track.

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smcicr

06-05-2005, 09:07 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: uk

Posts: 31

lots of things...

for what it's worth and apologies if any of this is old hat...

1. table / players - presumably it goes without saying that having a feel for both is going to help.

2. PF action - any raises? who (have they raised before, what do they like to raise with, are they possibly on tilt from the last hand, is this their first raise in hours)? how much (is that a standard amount, is it the high end or low end if they vary)? from what position (is it a button steal, is it a rock raising UTG, is it a maniac)?

3. Flop - so much here...building on PF stuff a lot. Is it a continuation bet from the raiser and they've missed? Is someone checking a monster looking for action (got to know your players for this, pauses when acting can sometimes give info here but can also be deception...), did someone overbet the pot & are they protecting a weak hand? can the players in be pushed off hands if i bet? and on and on...

4. Later rounds - again, build on the previous stages. probably most important and one of the steps i'm struggling with so far - what hand(s) do i put them on? (all previous stages theoretically make this bit easier as you go along and gain more info

...) why am i calling, checking, raising. why is my opponent doing what s/he is doing? how much are the bets? what are the pot odds?

5. On the end - am i ahead? are they likely to bluff? should i bluff? can i bet for value?

6. Aftermath - what did they have? were my instincts right (even if i lost)? finding out what cards someone had is something i find really helpful, you can then work back through the hand looking at what they did when and trying to build up a picture of them as a player for next time. most of the sites let you put notes against a player and that can also be handy as a reminder for the next day / week / month etc. Party / Empire have a link to the last hand (top right of the screen) and that's also helpful as it shows hands mucked on the end.

in relation to the specifics you mention:

Ax - 'unsooted' i will only play it as the button and if everyone folded to me, then i'll raise the blinds with it.

Ax - sooted, i like to limp this and try to see a cheap flop, basically looking to catch a flush draw - probably a(nother) huge hole in my game.

suited connectors - limp from late position

AK when missing - usually throw a bet out on the flop and check/fold from there if it's called and I miss again on the turn - any excuse not to take it to the river? lots. Pushing with it is for someone wiser to answer

again, just my opinion - hope some of it's useful...

"nobody's ugly after 2 am" - bukowski

biondino

06-06-2005, 12:47 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

That's just the kind of thing I was looking for - thanks! Obviously there are a million things you can look for/consider, so anyone else want to contribute I'd be grateful.

As for limping with Ax suited - I did this yesterday, gleefully raising until the pot was £50 with a flush made on the turn. Beaten by an assbutt with two 9s and AA9 on the table...

storm75m

06-06-2005, 03:22 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston

Posts: 401

storm75m is an unknown quantity at this point

Here are some common leaks in a NL game...
(I know, cause I make a lot of them myself. I'm on a little slide as well, and I have some venting to do also...)

-Slow down and think!! A big disadvantage of playing online is that you get rushed into this speedy play, and that forces you to not consider all of your options, and full analysis of the hand, from start to finish. Slow down, replay the entire hand in your head, and put your opponent on a hand! (Especially before calling that big raise)

-Realize who your opponents are. If you know you're playing at the lower limits with the fishies, and they will not fold their KK if you bluff all-in by repping a straight, don't do it! Bluffing works better against better players (cause better players have mastered the art of folding)

-They were sooted!! Even the good players (actually many good players) call raises with 68s hoping to trap someone that can't let go of their tptk or overpair. You will miss a lot more often than you hit, and will leak away chips. To play these hands consistently against raises requires some great post-flop play, and once again, works better at higher limits where you know people know how to fold.

-Patience and Discipline. Do not force the action uncessarily based on any other factors outside of the game, such as "I haven't bluffed in a while...", "I'm only playing a few more hands anyway", "Double up or go to bed..." Nothing sucks more than to work at a table for 45 minutes to build up a decent stack, then piss half of it away on a big bluff cause you're about to leave.

-That little voice in the back of your head... it may be on to something, you should try listening. The one that says, "I know I'm beat, but..." or "He's gotta have the flush". Along these same lines, how often has anything good happened after you say to yourself, "awww fuck it..."

my .02

Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.

lfairban

06-10-2005, 08:07 AM Post subject: The answers to many of your questions . . .

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Grandview Heights, Ohio

Posts: 11

. . . can be found on My Poker Page

http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban...rt%20Odds.html

The Tanaka Chart is a summery of the FTR Pre-Flop Strategy Guide:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/essays_...ps_0_to_2.html

Poker is like sex, everybody thinks they are the best in the world, and nobody is as good as they think they are. - Dutch Boyd

G3O

06-10-2005, 06:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Toronto Area

Posts: 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by smcicr

Ax - 'unsooted' i will only play it as the button and if everyone folded to me, then i'll raise the blinds with it.

Ax - sooted, i like to limp this and try to see a cheap flop, basically looking to catch a flush draw - probably a(nother) huge hole in my game.

suited connectors - limp from late position

I am admittedly in the early stages of my poker 'education', but would like to contribute my thoughts here. I have met with success by playing these 3 types of hands more aggressively. Especially in a NL Sit N Go game.

Ax- 'unsooted' -depends on the x factor and number of opponents. A5,A6, A7,A8 with 5 or more players? I would fold. Less than 5 opponents and I am in position? Then I Raise PF and do a continuation bet on the flop regardless of whether it hits or not. The idea is to win the pot right away. If I get raised or get lots of callers, then I go into fold/ check mode. There is no way I would take a pair of Aces with a 6 kicker to the river with 2 callers.

Ax - 'sooted'. Raise or possibly reraise (depending on x factor or if i sense weakness/tilt) PF, regardless of position or number of opponents. Make a continuation after flop regardless of whether I hit it or not. Again, the idea is to win the pot right away. If I miss and get many callers I go into fold/check mode. If I hit a draw, the I keep the pressure on.

suited connectors - when shorthanded against strong players I make a larger than normal PF raise when in mid-late position. If i miss the flop and there are many overcards I represent that I hit with a strong bet. If i get called or raised, then I get ready to dump the hand. If I hit a low-mid card flop with a suited connector like 7-8 i will check/call. The idea is to make the other players put me on a hand like AK, AQ, KQ or a lower index pair, in hopes that I can get more bets from them.

Again, I am a rookie at this, so any comments are welcome.

ZenOffsuit

06-10-2005, 07:18 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Reading, ma

Posts: 293

You have some great advice in this thread, now.....

Read every Sticky post in the tournament tactics section (Rada, Rippy, DavSimon) Find the AOKRongly post for patience in MTT.....

These combined are to become your new bible....Read and re-read, print out and read again. Every important element of play in SnG and MTTs are covered there. Not just strategy, but table psychology as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprayed

When are you going to write the ultimate johnny_fish strategy manual? I'm tired of seeing your wins and then cleaning my shorts.

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