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Ragnar4
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12-12-2008, 07:36 PM
Post subject: Need three-bet clarification.
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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100bb effective stacks
1) UTG Raises, all folds to hero who has AA. Hero 3bets to 3x the UTG's raise right?
2) UTG Raises, all folds to CO who overcalls, hero still has AA. Hero 3bets to 3x the raise +1 for the overcall, right? So it's 4x the raise here?
3) UTG Raises, everyone calls to hero on the button who still has the AA, Hero 3-bets to 3x the raise +6 for the overcall meaning he's raising to 9x the original raise?
This doesn't seem right.
Most importantly what's the "math" behind the 3-bet as to WHY a certain size of raise seems standard.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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LuckySlevin
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Poker Room
Posts: 1,050
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Position is important you want to be 3betting higher OOP to compensate for being OOP so in 1) and 2) would need to know what position Hero was in. In position I 3bet 3.5 times original raiser, OOP I 3bet 4 times original raiser. Spenda taught me this at grinderschool.
But what do you do if you have one caller between you and the raiser? what do you do if you have 3 callers? how does this affect your betting? Good question you asked I'm looking forward to hearing the answers.
I'd be interested in the maths side myself. Why 3 x? why 4 x? I'm sure it will have everything to do with denying the caller the odds to call without a very strong hand, how 3x and 4x raises achieve this I don't know.
I think the underlying concepts of why you bet are important here as well though.If you're betting to get him to fold and know the raiser folds to less than 3x his raise, then I'd imagine you'd bet less, if it was just you and him in the pot.
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Look at what percentage of the pot you're raising in your examples.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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1 sb in the pot, one bb in the pot, typical raise is 4xbb so 5.5 bb, my raise is to 12 bb, which means I'm raising 2.2ish times the pot, in the "acceptable" paradigm. is 2.2 the excepted norm?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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LuckySlevin
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Poker Room
Posts: 1,050
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Anyone out there know the maths behind 3betting 3-4 times the amount of the original raiser? Why not 2.5 times? Why not five?
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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I think it's the same reason raising 3-4 times the BB as the initial PFR is considered standard.
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because 3.5x is pot
so say someone in NL200 raises 3.5x
that's 7 dollars and if that person would have called the pot would have been 5 and the raiser puts in 5 dollars more than the call (so total pot is now 10 dollars after the raise)
if we 3b that person, our call would have made the pot 17 dollars, so to raise pot we'd need to bet 17 dollars over a call, which is 24 dollars which is slightly less than 3.5x
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
because 3.5x is pot
so say someone in NL200 raises 3.5x
that's 7 dollars and if that person would have called the pot would have been 5 and the raiser puts in 5 dollars more than the call (so total pot is now 10 dollars after the raise)
if we 3b that person, our call would have made the pot 17 dollars, so to raise pot we'd need to bet 17 dollars over a call, which is 24 dollars which is slightly less than 3.5x
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A little clearer now. What I'm devining here is: When you re-raise, always re-raise the size of the pot PF?
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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I reraise slightly less than the pot IP, and pot OOP.
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