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rong
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01-10-2010, 09:13 AM
Post subject: need structure to learning
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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This may sound stupid, and some of you may feel the urge to shout at me as perhaps it’s all right there for me and I just don’t see it, but what I'm after, and this is something I am sure will help most people trying to improve their poker, is a structure to my learning. I currently spilt my small amount of poker time each week about 50/50 between playing and studying (reading articles/posts/analysis) but I think focussed studying in certain areas would be far more beneficial.
There are so many good articles and posts on this site that it can be a bit overwhelming at times. Every now and then I stumble over a new post with links to 20 other awesome posts eg Robb's Giving something back post or ISF's poker strategy articles
(anyone who hasn’t read these should do so, including all links within, ‘cos they are friggin awesome) as well as many, many others.
My issue is half the time I don’t know what I should be applying at what level and what I should be studying next. What I would like, and think could be really helpful to lots of people, is a structured study guide.
For example, I am currently playing the 5nl tables. I think I need to be focussing on playing tight, spotting monsters/sets, categorising players (eg Tagg, Lagg, calling stations etc) and putting players on ranges. What I don’t think I need to be thinking about is balancing my range with bluffs & good hands to ensure I’m not exploitable or attempting to use Rentons ABCD theorem. If indeed I should be thinking about this in detail, then I am doing something wrong. But the trouble is I stumble across lots of interesting articles and then want to apply what I have half learnt.
So my point here, could someone who knows what they’re talking about work on a post that will be a full structured pathway of learning, perhaps starting with the basic strategy (or links to) needed for beating the micro stakes and pointing out what areas of your game you should be focussing on here, and then pointing out how your strategy should evolve as you slowly move up, perhaps linking to appropriate articles or forum discussion threads that you should be looking to learn and focus on as you move up to the next stakes level
For example, at 5nl focus on this, good links are here.... at 25nl now start to adjust your game like so, focus on xxx area of your game and read these links .... and so on
Sorry if this seems lazy, but I have read all articles in the digest (some many times) plus many more, but I still feel a lack of structure is hindering my progress.
(You may now commence with sarky links to the digest page and/or links to the beginners circle forum)
On a side note, is there a post somewhere purely focusing on putting villains on ranges cos I suck at this and it seems to be the most important part of poker.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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With as many posts as you have, you should know that there's no instruction manual out there to learn how to beat the game.
It's great that you study that much, but IMO you should be putting in more volume. I have the feeling you're working on too many things at once. Try to work on one or two things at a time. You don't have to balance your range or FTC ratio at 5NL. It's great you're thinking about it but you're only going to get yourself in trouble. Generally every player at that level is still on level 0 (whether they believe it or not), so to give your opponents credit for being on level 2 thinking is -EV to your bottom line. You don't have to represent hands and "balance your range" at this level because not nearly enough villains are paying attention.
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DoanDiggy
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01-10-2010, 01:26 PM
Post subject: Re: need structure to learning
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#3 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DanAronG
So my point here, could someone who knows what they’re talking about work on a post that will be a full structured pathway of learning, perhaps starting with the basic strategy (or links to) needed for beating the micro stakes and pointing out what areas of your game you should be focussing on here, and then pointing out how your strategy should evolve as you slowly move up, perhaps linking to appropriate articles or forum discussion threads that you should be looking to learn and focus on as you move up to the next stakes level
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This sounds like a very valuable service for someone to perform. It would be so useful. It would almost... well, it would be worth paying for, now wouldn't it?
The kind of player "who knows what they're talking about" enough to do something like this can probably make at least $30/hr playing poker. Putting all of this together, going over it, revising it, posting it, and then following the thread and replying to it would probably take at least 5 and up to 10 hours from such a person's time.
I'm just saying, it seems pretty greedy to request something like this with no offer of anything in return. In fact, if someone put together a roadmap to turn every bad player into a good player, it would cost them money in the end.
FWIW there are affordable training sites out there. I'm a member of GrinderSchool, and they have several "How to beat..." video series, covering 6max, full ring, and MTTs so far (that I know of). Maybe something like that would suit you.
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jyms
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01-10-2010, 03:42 PM
Post subject: Re: need structure to learning
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#4 (permalink)
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy
FWIW there are affordable training sites out there. I'm a member of GrinderSchool, and they have several "How to beat..." video series, covering 6max, full ring, and MTTs so far (that I know of). Maybe something like that would suit you.
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This is what you should do. Forget what you are reading and start with watching a few of the videos here linked on the columns on the left, Then get the membership for 3 months and you will know where you need to study next.
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rong
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01-11-2010, 10:03 PM
Post subject: Re: need structure to learning
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DanAronG
So my point here, could someone who knows what they’re talking about work on a post that will be a full structured pathway of learning, perhaps starting with the basic strategy (or links to) needed for beating the micro stakes and pointing out what areas of your game you should be focussing on here, and then pointing out how your strategy should evolve as you slowly move up, perhaps linking to appropriate articles or forum discussion threads that you should be looking to learn and focus on as you move up to the next stakes level
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This sounds like a very valuable service for someone to perform. It would be so useful. It would almost... well, it would be worth paying for, now wouldn't it?
The kind of player "who knows what they're talking about" enough to do something like this can probably make at least $30/hr playing poker. Putting all of this together, going over it, revising it, posting it, and then following the thread and replying to it would probably take at least 5 and up to 10 hours from such a person's time.
I'm just saying, it seems pretty greedy to request something like this with no offer of anything in return. In fact, if someone put together a roadmap to turn every bad player into a good player, it would cost them money in the end.
FWIW there are affordable training sites out there. I'm a member of GrinderSchool, and they have several "How to beat..." video series, covering 6max, full ring, and MTTs so far (that I know of). Maybe something like that would suit you. |
Although I agree with what you are saying, I don't think it would take someone that lopng. My favourites list would probably cover all the links they'd need. But you are right about the why should they point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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rong
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01-11-2010, 10:06 PM
Post subject: Re: need structure to learning
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jyms
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DoanDiggy
FWIW there are affordable training sites out there. I'm a member of GrinderSchool, and they have several "How to beat..." video series, covering 6max, full ring, and MTTs so far (that I know of). Maybe something like that would suit you.
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This is what you should do. Forget what you are reading and start with watching a few of the videos here linked on the columns on the left, Then get the membership for 3 months and you will know where you need to study next. |
I've ummed and arrred about this a bit. Gutted I missed the freebie over xmas but was away visiting family. I've never sat through any of the vids, don't get that much time to playh as it is and whenever I try to watch one I just get the urge to play instead. I generally read/study after I've played when I'm too tired to carry on playing but don't have time then for a video either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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I guess you just need to figure out what your goals are and where you want to go. If your planning on moving up to the midstakes then playing 10K hands a month and not spending any time working on your game via study/sweat/coaching means it just won't happen and your just a recreational player. You need to decide what your plan for your poker career will be and what kind of time and effort your willing to put into it
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linaker
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01-11-2010, 10:52 PM
Post subject: Re: need structure to learning
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#8 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 70
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DanAronG
For example, I am currently playing the 5nl tables. I think I need to be focussing on playing tight, spotting monsters/sets, categorising players (eg Tagg, Lagg, calling stations etc) and putting players on ranges.
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It seems to me you have worked out for yourself what you need to concentrate on. My understanding is that you can beat 5NL with ABC TAG poker and that balancing ranges is not a big factor.
I think I am in a similar position to you, as I have played a lot of SnGs (like you I think?) and am now playing 5NL to try to improve my post flop play. I think categorising/exploiting players and putting opponents on ranges are what I need to focus on. I tend to win small pots and lose large ones, because I can't spot that a passive donk has a hand for once. If you want to swap a few hand histories to practice hand reading feel free to PM me.
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Arjonius
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
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I agree that it's largely a matter of what your goals are and how you prioritize them, which can change ovre time. If you just want to have fun playing and aren't too concerned about losing a few bucks, then go ahead and play loose, bluff whenever you feel like it, etc. After all, it's just NL5, which means you can lose (or should be able to lose) a lot of buyins without seriously impacting your lifestyle.
OTOH, if beating NL5 is really important, then improving your ABC play and your categorization of opponents will certainly help. But keep in mind that if you train yourself to play nitty, you'll have to unlearn that if you move up enough to where opponents will take advantage of you. That's a few levels up though.
Of course, winning and having fun aren't completely inseparable, so it does come down to weighing your personal priorities.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Message me on AIM at xojessahhox and I'll show you something that will greatly help.
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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rong
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Beachside
Posts: 1,196
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cool, will do when i get the chance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
hey guys, if you ever make a snap call on the river when your opponent raises you're fucking retarded.
Fucking. Retarded.
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