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Savior

06-23-2007, 08:58 PM Post subject: Need General Advice and Guidance

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Plugging Leaks

Posts: 16

I am new to FTR, but have been paying NLHE for about a year on the light to moderate side. I mainly play live and only have about 18k hands online, but only 10k in PokerTracker - a relatively small sample. I mainly play 9-45 man SNGs ($2.25 to $6.50) and some micro stake cash games at FTP at night after work. I play anywhere up to 1/2 live with friends and at casinos. I have read many books and read many threads here (which are very helpful). I am posting here because I would love some personalized help. Last year I did have a poker lesson from a mentor and it really helped me with pre-flop play and analysis and some other math concepts and how all of that works. That is not so much an issue for me. But it seems as though there are so many tools to analyze your game that I need to take advantage of better.
Playing lately, though, made me realize that I need to open up more at the right spots, and I have read that PT is a great tool for analyzing those spots - correct me if I am wrong. I am a slightly winning live player, but barely a break even player online. I used to be very weak-tight and now consider myself to be mainly TAG, but still playing a bit scared. I would like to plug the leaks that make me weak and scared (and of course making the wrong plays), move toward playing LAG and basically mixing up my game. Also, I would really appreciate if someone would review hand histories with me.
Here are my PT stats for SNGs:
VP$P: 27.65
PF Raise: 11.10
PFAF: o.60
Flop AF: 4.02
Turn AF: 3.27
River AF: 3.06
Total AF: 1.21

Here are PT stats for cash games:
VP$P: 28.64
PF Raise: 4.11
PFAF: 0.16
Flop AF: 2.15
Turn AF: 2.67
River AF: 3.33
Total AF: 0.68

What else is important for me to look at in PT that could identifiy that I should be doing more of and doing less of?
Would anyone be willing to review some HHs? Should I just post some for general feedback?

Thanks for looking. I appreciate all feedback.
S

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jyms

06-23-2007, 09:20 PM

#2 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Yea, can't really comment on the Tourney games since your stats will change depending on blind levels and stack sizes. If you haven't read HOH1&2 yet, do it immediately. I'm guessing you haven't just by your questions. as for your ring stats, you are way to loose and way to passive pre flop. Stop limping your hands when opening, especially in later position and stop playing crap when people raise. You say you consider yourself mostly Tag?? Not close at all. You are loose neutral at best. Try this link since you say you have PT. Use it every 10K till you get the idea. GL

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=4946669

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pokerfan

06-23-2007, 10:07 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: NS, Canada

Posts: 1,736

In casino live games, you should still stick with tight aggressive conservative style, get in cheaply, get out quickly when encountering resistence and NOT play fancy stuff against unthinking opponents . Believe it or not, Loose aggressive players at casinos are usually the biggest money losers in the long run along with fish passive ones

Also, i don't think you are really TAG considerng that your VP$IP is this high when playing online.
my stats over 10k hands on pokerstars 1-2 nl :
vp$IP: 18.1%
pfr:8.3%
flop aggression factor:3.9

Savior

06-23-2007, 10:50 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Plugging Leaks

Posts: 16

Actually, I have read HOH I and II, LGB, Poker Theory and I am reading the Ful Tilt book, too. I will start reading HOH again. I definitely have the basics down. But I think I don't have enough playexperience to work the other concepts. I think the problem is translating book knowledge to game practice. I can definitely do this, but I need the practice and not fall into bad habits, which I think has and can happen. I really want to focus on this.
I agree on the tourney stats. I took a look and understand what you mean. My % increases as blind levels increase and it becomes more shorthanded.

The cash game comment is definitely what I need. I will read the PT article and get a good sense of how the numbers translate to my game. I will see where I am too passive and try to play more aggressive. I do recognize that I limp too much, but how do I get away from this at the micro levels where my raise gets called by 3-4 players?? I need stronger post flop play and then pray I don't get sucked out on. Honesty, for now I don't mind losing some $$ to suck outs to learn as long as I make the right plays.
And as for limping, I play in a 10c/20c game where there are a lot of limp-fu (as they call it) because everyone wants to see flops and have fun. This may be hurting me. Even if I raise, so many people call because of the stakes. So, it doesn't seem worth it to raise. This I see definitely translating into my on line games. Do you think I should play a higher limit?? .25/.50? .5/1??

sejje

06-25-2007, 02:18 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 883

[quote="pokerfan"]In casino live games, you should still stick with tight aggressive conservative style, get in cheaply, get out quickly when encountering resistence/quote]

Not exactly sure what you're saying here, but no matter what it is, I disagree.

You should be punishing the hell out of loose casino players. By bringing it in for a raise, not by "getting in cheaply."

There's some hands that of course it's fine to limp behind with. But our general play should be to bring it in with a raise, especially if we're playing tight.

Savior

06-25-2007, 03:53 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Plugging Leaks

Posts: 16

pokerfan,
Not sure I follow either. I understand pot odds and drawing odds pretty well, and hand values and other advanced concepts to a decent degree (but not very well yet b/c I need practice). I think you are saying not to employ some of the advanced concepts (assuming I even know them)because they don't work on the average casino players. My past experience has been to play premium hands, adjust for my position and generally play tight (no slow playing either - it is amazing how may people like to chase gut shot straight draws).

Sejje,
Did some more homework this weekend and I see where you are coming from. I do see areas where I don't raise and should. One of my trouble areas is small PPs. I tend to limp early and set mine to a raise and raise in LP. Do you recommend mixing up the early limp with an early raise?

Pelion

06-25-2007, 04:10 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Ok the obvious thing that jumps out at me is that you are not TAG. 38/4/1 is pretty loose and very passive. What game are you playing in. e.g. 6max/FR stakes/site. I assume NL?

LAG isnt necessarily the money maker that people make it out to be. If you have very good postflop skills and are good at reading hands/players and playing position to put people into tough spots then it works. Based on your stats and the fact that you are only just breaking even I doubt you have the ability to play a good LAG game yet and would probably end up spewing horribly. You dont need to play LAG to make money though. If I were you Id work on getting a TAG game down before you start trying to make it more complicated. Id guess you need to fold more out of position and raise more in position but without seeing some hands/ more detailed stats its hard to say.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

gingerwizard

06-25-2007, 04:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 1,815

gingerwizard is an unknown quantity at this point

I think pokerfan is trying to say don't bluff casino players. and he is right. They are stations, total stations. Sejie is saying that because they are stations, we raise to make it a mistake for them to call. When they do (and they will) we profit from their mistakes.

You NEVER ignore pot odds or implied odds. They are not advanced concepts they are completely fundamental to the game.

Lastly your pairs are not a problem. limping the small ones early and set mining is exactly how you should be playing microstakes online poker. Your problem is all the other hands you are limping that you should be either raising or folding. With 29% VP$IP you must be limping all sorts, things like KQ, KJ, AT, and probably suited connectors and suited aces and all sorts of crap.

Well thats not to say don't play these hands, but just dont play so passively. You need to learn about position. Limping Ax suited behind limpers on the button is a fine play. limping ATs UTG sucks unless you are real hot postflop. Raising AJo from 4th position is good, raising it UTG is borderline and many (including me) won't do it.

Read Rentons 169 hand strategy in the beginners section and learn which hands are good in what positions and more importantly what you should do with them.

If you play close to the way that preflop strategy suggests you'll be playing TAGG. Your stats are loose passive at the moment which makes you real easy to exploit. You don't want to be an easy target.

This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.

Savior

06-25-2007, 04:34 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Plugging Leaks

Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Ok the obvious thing that jumps out at me is that you are not TAG. 38/4/1 is pretty loose and very passive. What game are you playing in. e.g. 6max/FR stakes/site. I assume NL?

I definitely see it. And I knew I was being way too passive. I went through some positional stats and can see that I am coing in too much in EP and limping with anything that looks good. I have been playing low limit SNGs and 9 handed, .10/.25 NLHE on FTP.
I am switching to 6max .25/.50 and will work on my TAG game based on these posts here (and, of course, everthing else I have been reading).

Savior

06-25-2007, 04:41 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Plugging Leaks

Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerwizard

You NEVER ignore pot odds or implied odds. They are not advanced concepts they are completely fundamental to the game.

Your problem is all the other hands you are limping that you should be either raising or folding. With 29% VP$IP you must be limping all sorts, things like KQ, KJ, AT, and probably suited connectors and suited aces and all sorts of crap.

Well thats not to say don't play these hands, but just dont play so passively. You need to learn about position. Limping Ax suited behind limpers on the button is a fine play. limping ATs UTG sucks unless you are real hot postflop. Raising AJo from 4th position is good, raising it UTG is borderline and many (including me) won't do it.

I typically never ignore pot odds or implied odds. I am very quick and good with math, etc., and find it easy to manipulate the pot.
I think I generally (not all of the time) play the right cards from the right position, but I am finding that, yes, I am very passive when I play these.

Thanks FTR for all of your input. I will post HHs tonight and hopefully I can get some good feedback on my play.

Ltrain

06-25-2007, 06:47 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Ok the obvious thing that jumps out at me is that you are not TAG. 38/4/1 is pretty loose and very passive. What game are you playing in. e.g. 6max/FR stakes/site. I assume NL?

Don't move to 6 max until you have a better game, and move down when you do, not up. 6 max will drain you silly if you are still working on your game. If you want an easy way to practice your 6 max game, buy into a FR with only a few players on it, then adjust back to a FR game when the table fills up. FR players when forced to play shorthanded are really bad.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

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