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kb coolman
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10-27-2008, 03:16 PM
Post subject: Need advice on moving up in stakes
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Ok, I'm starting to win at the $10NL, and I've built my BR up to 37 buyins. According to rillas most excellent BR management post, I know I technically have enough in my BR to move up to $25NL (and have about 15 buyins). I know I'm right on the bubble, so how should I approach this? Should I stay at $10NL until I can get a more comfortable buyin cushion at $25NL (say, 20?)? I normally 3-table, so should I play a couple at $10 and one at $25? Or should I go ahead and make the transition to $25, letting my buyins determine my stakes (drop back to $10 if my BR goes below $250)?
Comments, suggestions are all welcome. Thanks in advance.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Very few people can move up early and under rolled and make it stick. You will spend far too much time worrying about the money and your BR to play your best. Take a shot if you want, but I still believe that 25BI's minimum is the trick. You can actually afford to lose 10BI's while learning the next level, meaning you won't lose 2 quick ones to variance and have to move down so quickly. It will also allow you to just think about the session and bet amounts and not look at the cashier every time you reload.
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hangchiong
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 359
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stick with the 30BI or 40BI rule.it helps a lot when you deal AA vs KK hands,or made a bad call or got sucked out.grind 10NL can be a hard run(for me).but i think 15BI rule is pretty tight,and make your bets and calling bets harder(always thinking about the cashier button).i think its better you play 3-tables 10NL then 2-tables 10NL with 25NL one table.Your thinking will be different then on 25NL,you will play differently on 10NL,and you will pay more attention on 25NL 1 table,which then your 10NL reads will suffer.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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i'd stay with 10NL for just a little bit longer. i don't like worrying about my roll while i'm at the tables, so i can just concentrate on making the right plays
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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A few main things to consider.
Are a proven winner at 10nl? Meaning have you played a significant sample size, and been more than a marginal winner?
Can you play your best when you are risking 2.5x the money, and you are barely rolled?
Ifyou can answer yes to both, while being honest with yourself, then it probably isn't a horrible idea. However, as others have said it is a much more comfortable state to have 25-30 buyins when you move up knowing you can stick it out through some variance before having to drop.
Fwiw, I moved up to 25nl from 10nl 3 times. First time I went up with a roll of $500 (winrate of like 4ptbb/100 at 10nl). I lost a few buyins and dropped when BR hit $400. And it felt like shit. Had AA < J7s < KK allin preflop for a 400bb pot. Waited for the roll to get to $580 before giving it another shot, and dropped at $500 again. Finally decided to wait till the BR was $650 before moving up and staying. 25nl was the only stakes I've had a problem moving up to so far. But it was my first jump too, so...
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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bankroll requirements change from person to person. if you have no problem redepositing then play any stakes you want (and can beat obviously). if you don't want to redeposit then 25-35 buy-ins is better. and remember you don't have to move to 25nl tables exclusively. you can open up 1 table along with your regular 10nl tables and try to ease into it that way.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Are a proven winner at 10nl? Meaning have you played a significant sample size, and been more than a marginal winner?
Can you play your best when you are risking 2.5x the money, and you are barely rolled?
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Honestly, at this point I think I need to answer 'no' to both. I've been a marginal winner, but I still have some glaring inconsistencies in my game. I also think I would be far too concerned with loosing a $25 buy-in and how it would affect my BR.
Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I think at this point, I need to stay at $10NL for a little while longer...at least get my BR up to $5oo or $600 before taking a shot at it. That at least allows me to loose a few buyins before feeling like I need to drop back down.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
bankroll requirements change from person to person. if you have no problem redepositing then play any stakes you want (and can beat obviously). if you don't want to redeposit then 25-35 buy-ins is better. and remember you don't have to move to 25nl tables exclusively. you can open up 1 table along with your regular 10nl tables and try to ease into it that way.
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I'll quote spoony on this one, and I'll just mention that I can't play the way Martin suggests - one table of the new limit, a couple of the old. If it works for him and you, great. Just doesn't for me.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Start with about 20 buyins at 2nl or 5nl. This means either $40 or $100. Now, don't put anymore money into your poker account ever. Instead, grind through the limits and get good at poker. Then, the higher you get, take a slightly higher bankroll requirement than the stakes previous so that you better protect your poker bankroll.
When you have $100, play 5nl. (20 buy-ins)
When you have $250, play 10nl. (25 buy-ins)
When you have $750, play 25nl. (30 buy-ins)
When you have $1750, play 50nl. (35 buy-ins)
When you have $4000, play 100nl. (40 buy-ins)
When you have $10000, play 200nl. (50 buy-ins)
If you follow this and regularly play and work on your game, you'll be making a lot of money in less than two years imo.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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if you have worked hard to get your bankroll to where it is and think that you game has holes then dont move up until you feel you are overrolled and can take the hit of bad play - just not being good enough to move up yet or tilt w/e.
however, if you want the challenge then take some shots but prepared to call it a day if you arent playing winning poker/adapting.
With a small br and a new player id edge on the side of caution until you are happy enough (as you can be at the micro's) to move up and shot take.
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Don't do it, if you experience a little variance at NL25 it will take you weeks to repair your roll at NL10
so moving up slower might actually save you from having to grind NL10 for a very long time since after taking a big hit on a big bankroll you might still continue playing NL25
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Great advice from everyone. Thanks again.
I hate spoon's advice. But I know it's only because he's right. Wow. $750 to move up to $25NL. That will take a while, but it definately removes all the tilt risk, and gives plenty of cushion for variance. I also have to agree with him because the larger my BR has gotten (up to 39BI now), the better I'm playing. When I thought back on it, I went back to look at my BR tracker. I really started calming down and playing the math more consistently when my BR hit 30B I.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
Great advice from everyone. Thanks again.
I hate spoon's advice. But I know it's only because he's right. Wow. $750 to move up to $25NL. That will take a while, but it definately removes all the tilt risk, and gives plenty of cushion for variance. I also have to agree with him because the larger my BR has gotten (up to 39BI now), the better I'm playing. When I thought back on it, I went back to look at my BR tracker. I really started calming down and playing the math more consistently when my BR hit 30B I.
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I have ~$725, but I'm not moving up until I have $800 + . If you're pwn'ing 10nl, it doesn't take long. If you're not, you're probably not ready for 25nl. I speak from experience - I've been here before.
Good luck.
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GHOST 24 7
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: california
Posts: 20
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Well first off im not an get online player but I know a couple one of my boys is a fulltilt master and I watch him play a lot and wut u could do is play a few games @ yr level that u mastered and a game on the next level untill u get comfortable but I don't know wut stakes u play but 10nl has sharks up there is 10nl the same as $5 $10 dollar blinds I play $3 $6 or $2 $4
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10 NL is 0.05/0.10 blinds
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