|
Tasha
|
07-08-2010, 12:04 PM
Post subject: Narrowing the field
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
|
|
Here's something that needs clarification.
The standard opinion used to be that you should raise bets after the flop if you have a good hand to narrow the field and reduce the chances of someone else drawing a better hand on a later street.
There is a counter-opinion that says poker is about winning money through you opponents mistakes so it is better to keep more people in the pot because they are putting in money.
Which is correct?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Penneywize
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 885
|
|
Meh, neither are even remotely correct, really. There's a lot wrong with both statements but I'll just quickly go through the gist of it:
Generally speaking, we bet/raise when we think either worse is calling or better is folding. We do want to give bad odds for a player who is drawing, however they will often call anyway on the basis of implied odds. Thus we need to learn to fold in some situations where their draws "get there", and draws make up a sufficient portion of their range, so that we don't justify their earlier 'optimistic calls'. As you can see from this, we actually do want flush draws and such to call us when we have made hands; if we know we won't give them the implied odds, their initial calls will be incorrect.
As for 'keeping people in the pot', we may do this every now and then when we have very strong hands and feel that the other players have mostly garbage; so we can either check or bet smaller, perhaps inducing a bluff, and ultimately getting value we wouldn't have otherwise.
Obviously, theres a lot more to it than these two short paragraphs and I think you should probably spill the 20$ for NLHE Theory & Practice at this point in your learning curve.
Oh yeah, in b4 someone corrects me and tells me I'm an idiot.
|
|
|
|
Outlaw
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
|
|
Try not to base your play around grand generalizations. Posting specific situations is your best move in learning.
So start posting some hands.
|
|
|
|
Penneywize
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 885
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
So start posting some hands.
|
THIS * 1000000000000000
Tasha, don't think you've ever posted a hand..?!
|
|
|
|
Tasha
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Try not to base your play around grand generalizations. Posting specific situations is your best move in learning.
So start posting some hands.
|
On the contrary, that's exactly why I don't post hands and I am deliberately trying to learn the general principles. Every hand is unique, and learning what to do for that specific hand only helps a little.
But the right strategy for any hand is always based on more general principles that will then help you on other hands you haven't seen before.
|
|
|
|
Keith
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
|
|
pretty terrible reason for not posting hands. In the same vein , your original question they are both correct and both wrong depending upon the situation. Posting hands will help you understand how to apply the different principles in different situations.
If you flop quads , do you want to thin the field or keep more people in the pot and let them try and catch up whilst putting money in the pot .If you are dealt AA do you want to go multiway and increase the chance of getting beaten , or raise to thin the field and hopefully stack someone headsup.
post your hands where you weren't sure what to do , and give reasoons for acting as you did. Find out if you are applying the correct principles in the corect situations.
|
|
|
|
c4ptain_obv
|
|
One Pair
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 20
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_MM
pretty terrible reason for not posting hands. In the same vein , your original question they are both correct and both wrong depending upon the situation. Posting hands will help you understand how to apply the different principles in different situations.
If you flop quads , do you want to thin the field or keep more people in the pot and let them try and catch up whilst putting money in the pot .If you are dealt AA do you want to go multiway and increase the chance of getting beaten , or raise to thin the field and hopefully stack someone headsup.
post your hands where you weren't sure what to do , and give reasoons for acting as you did. Find out if you are applying the correct principles in the corect situations.
|
this+ general principles suck
|
|
|
|
JKDS
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
|
|
I have improved so much since i started posting hands that i cant even comprehend why someone wouldnt want to do the same.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
|
|
|
supa
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 986
|
|
Tasha,if your not going to take the advice of these people^^^then your probably not going to listen when you do post hands anyway.Which is sad because I've found that they have some very valuable things to say.Forget what you think you know and start letting them teach you.
|
“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”
Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
start using your brain more and vagina less
|
|
|
Icanhastreebet
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
|
|
Post moar hands
|
|
|
|
kiwiMark
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
|
|
Knowledge without application, useless, etc.
|
|
|
|
Icanhastreebet
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
|
|
Application without knowledge is bad too though O:
|
|
|
|
dneureiter
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 545
|
|
"This is an excellent post as well. People want instructions, "in this spot do X" that's what they want to hear, and that's what they follow. Why? Because its a lot easier than figuring out why and when to apply something. Its simpler to just say "oh ok, do X here, ill remember that ez game""
from a 2+2 post on micros
It's really a matter of how much you can make by slowplaying and not raising (above what raising would net you) vs the cost and probability you will be outdrawn. It's also extremely opponent dependent... so it depends :P
like kiwi and icanhastreebet say it's more important to know the merits of doing something. Then when you are in a new and unique situation (which as you say, every hand is too an extent.) you can think about spots and make logical decisions to be +ev even though you've never been in this situation b4.
|
|
|
|
Tasha
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
|
|
If it will make you all happy I'll try and post some interesting hands.
As for the original question, there is another aspect to it:
The pot size tends to increase dramatically on later streets, making the earlier betting less significant. That would be another reason to narrow the field quickly because it isn't worth keeping other players in beyond the flop because the amount they bet isn't worth the risk.
|
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
If it will make you all happy I'll try and post some interesting hands.
As for the original question, there is another aspect to it:
The pot size tends to increase dramatically on later streets, making the earlier betting less significant. That would be another reason to narrow the field quickly because it isn't worth keeping other players in beyond the flop because the amount they bet isn't worth the risk.
|
pot size only increases dramatically if you bet on earlier streets, making betting earlier and building a pot more significant. That would be another reason to build a big pot when you're trying to get max value ____________I'm sorry, that last part doesn't seem like english.
|
|
|
|
Tasha
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2010
Location: At the far end of the table
Posts: 262
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
pot size only increases dramatically if you bet on earlier streets, making betting earlier and building a pot more significant. That would be another reason to build a big pot when you're trying to get max value ____________I'm sorry, that last part doesn't seem like english.
|
I think we are agreeing here for different reasons.
Not sure what you mean about the English, although I dare say it could have been phrased better.
|
|
|
|
Imthenewfish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
|
|
we bet for value or as a bluff, the field narrowing is just a side-effect :/
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
