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socal1111
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05-17-2009, 06:34 AM
Post subject: My Point Proven!!
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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I posted a while back about attempting to think about the game differently- trying not to get stuck in, "this is how we should play because X says so..." The game is always changing and evolving, so we should keep our eyes open for new ways, new ideas.
Everyone here hammered me, saying +EV will always be +EV, period. "It's not about theory, it's about proven strategies and stats," you said.
Well... Greenstein's, Doyle's, and all the other "proven ways" are becoming totally obsolete nowadays. Durr is proving my point, and shoving it in all of your faces!!! He's completely changing the way NL is played, as he toys with the "old way" of thinking. This is the best NL player anyone has ever seen. He's throwing the book out the window... making players who are considered the best in the world look like beginners!
Take note: The game is changing right in front of your noses, whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't change with it... kiss your BR goodbye, because those who evolve, adapt, and keep their focus on possibilities (rather than safety and comfort) are going to eat you up!!!
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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vaks
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 331
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i loled
and i think your taking people too literally, poker is a very dynamic game and of course you have to adapt to certain situations... but coming out and posting this seems to be like you have a lot to learn before you will be able to move up from 25nl 
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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OP... So you are basically saying your play and durrrr's play is very similar?
Also the previous post you made was probably as retarded as this one I didn't read it. However, I highly doubt anyone credible said to stick to set rules/strats/dynamics, because anyone credible knows that you have to adjust often in poker.
Also learn something about poker and realize that durrrr isn't "throwing the book out of the window". He is absolutely playing by the book. He's just doing it much better than most others. "The Book" doesn't say to do this in so and so spot. It teaches you what to consider to in such situations and what to decide on. Durrrr is doing just that.
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settecba
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: stealing blinds from UTG
Posts: 326
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AdamThePirate
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 142
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You tell them!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Take it Doyle, take it!
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settecba
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: stealing blinds from UTG
Posts: 326
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Have just read the other thread OP mentions. If you havent yet, enjoy:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ly-t72411.html
sarbox´ post close to the end is just great...
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AdamThePirate
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 142
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He spent a year stewing about a thread in BC... lol.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Take it Doyle, take it!
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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4+4 still does not =1o btw. Just though I would be the first to let you know of your failure.
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What's that? You want to copy durrrr's OLD AND PROVEN strategy?
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Blazing_Saddler
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05-17-2009, 09:38 AM
Post subject: Re: My Point Proven!!
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#10 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Walsall
Posts: 65
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
I posted a while back about attempting to think about the game differently- trying not to get stuck in, "this is how we should play because X says so..." The game is always changing and evolving, so we should keep our eyes open for new ways, new ideas.
Everyone here hammered me, saying +EV will always be +EV, period. "It's not about theory, it's about proven strategies and stats," you said.
Well... Greenstein's, Doyle's, and all the other "proven ways" are becoming totally obsolete nowadays. Durr is proving my point, and shoving it in all of your faces!!! He's completely changing the way NL is played, as he toys with the "old way" of thinking. This is the best NL player anyone has ever seen. He's throwing the book out the window... making players who are considered the best in the world look like beginners!
Take note: The game is changing right in front of your noses, whether you want to believe it or not. If you don't change with it... kiss your BR goodbye, because those who evolve, adapt, and keep their focus on possibilities (rather than safety and comfort) are going to eat you up!!!
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I'm not expert, but that statement is correct. + EV will always be +EV. There are many many different kinds of +EV situations, and they will always be +EV. Any given situation has many variables to take in to consideration.
Getting all your chips in pre flop against the best player in the world with AA, will always be +EV. That's the most simple of scenario's. You can go a million miles deeper than that, but it kind of gets the point over.
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socal1111
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 191
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Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!
Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??
He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"
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"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!
Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??
He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"
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So... you're saying play QT > flopped trips > AA?
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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I dare you to show me a single new way, new thought, or different belief system. I FUCKING DARE YOU.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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tuuk2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Hartford
Posts: 296
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Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457
I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?
What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tuuk2
Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457
I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?
What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at. |
if you think durrrr fears getting played back at 
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sil693
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 609
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by socal1111
Or... cc'ing one of the most proven NL players in the world w/ QT preflop after he raised utg, (because you know that "his way" is no longer THE way, and can't work against me) is +EV!
Last time I checked, QT is a huge dog against AA and flopped trips... or IS it??
He's writing his own book, with new ways, new thoughts, and a belief system that says, "Unless you old dudes change your way of viewing this game... YOU LOSE!!!!"
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durrrr felt it was +EV.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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putting the legitimate points that everyone else is making in response to OP, there's also the obvious fact that this argument does not apply to 10NL (which seems to be your stakes) AT ALL! so long as ESPN shows the WSOP where Daniel Negraneau is pushing all in with KJo without telling us diddly about position, stack sizes, table image, fold equity, etc. then the dynamics at 10NL will NOT change, and we can continue to butt rape just by playing by the book.
once you get a good handle on the in's and out's of "the book" and you're playing against someone named Renton or Mirttinur or something (though the latter is unlikely) THEN you can adapt your game
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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tuuk2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Hartford
Posts: 296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tuuk2
Didn't Durr get pwned by Doyle and Eli Elezra on HSP? http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/h...pisode-11-1457
I don't see much revolutionary in Durr's game. He playes ulta-aggresively. Excuse my ignorance, but isn't Durr playing the same way Gus Hanson does? Loose aggressive play that relies heavily on post-flop play?
What do LAGs fear the most? Getting played back at. |
if you think durrrr fears getting played back at |
No he doesn't fear getting played back at. That's what makes him dangerous. Fear isn't the right word, but a LAG doesn't want to see someone re-raising him when he's playing 8-6o and he missed the flop.
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OP
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Iso'ing Iso's
Posts: 117
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HAHA Durrrr with 68? Huh, fold? I don't want to get played back at, what?
No, he fukin 5bets that shit right in Lederer's face.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G10yj3QcjAg
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sammygee17 (12 hours ago)
i lol'd at how shit lederer is
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birdman417
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: US
Posts: 82
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Since Lederer is (i believe) a CEO at Full Tilt...every time Dwan plays there his rake gives money back to Lederer..Dwan pwned
IMO, Ultra Aggro makes for good TV..would we be talking about this if Lederer flopped a pair instead of Dwan?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by birdman417
Since Lederer is (i believe) a CEO at Full Tilt...every time Dwan plays there his rake gives money back to Lederer..Dwan pwned
IMO, Ultra Aggro makes for good TV..would we be talking about this if Lederer flopped a pair instead of Dwan?
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so what, Lederer is so bad for flatting PF anyway
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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So you like durrr, eh?
Do you also like HU challanges? How about it? 50k hands... just you and me.
I will play by the book, and you can pwn me with your QTo.
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melinda1978
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Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 50
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i would like to know what is durrs proven stragedy never heard of it,thanks,
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2ndline.4thstreet
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 120
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You can call my all in when you have QT any day against my AA. In fact I beg you to...
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Extremophile
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stackton
Posts: 451
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I have been playing poker with play money for almost a year now and considering my experiences I should agree with you. Any two cards are good preflop or postflop. Just go all in and you will get lucky anyways.
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okiman
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 171
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
OP... So you are basically saying your play and durrrr's play is very similar?
Also the previous post you made was probably as retarded as this one I didn't read it. However, I highly doubt anyone credible said to stick to set rules/strats/dynamics, because anyone credible knows that you have to adjust often in poker.
Also learn something about poker and realize that durrrr isn't "throwing the book out of the window". He is absolutely playing by the book. He's just doing it much better than most others. "The Book" doesn't say to do this in so and so spot. It teaches you what to consider to in such situations and what to decide on. Durrrr is doing just that. |
To pick up on this point, look at the hands Durrrr plays in these shows and you'll see many of them are examples of Renton's ABCD theorem perfectly applied. The only difference is Durrrr has a much wider range of hands than most. But the way he plays them post flop is "by the book". Now, why does he play such a wide range? Because his post flop edge is so great against most any player, he can play ATC against most opponents and have it be +EV. The same way just about any decent player can play against a 90/3/0.5 fish with just about any starting hand due to the huge post flop edge against most players of this type. We've all done it to fish. Durrrr is just such a great player his definition of a fish includes way better players than our definition does.
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well the players he plays against on HSP are kind of bad, they play as well as them 100NL tagfish
barry greenstein is decent, though
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