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ray
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10-09-2006, 01:54 AM
Post subject: My Microlimits partypoker play
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Hey all. I'm new to online poker and this is my first time posting on FTR. I have recently made my first deposit onto PP and will be playing the lowest limit NLHE cash games soon. I was wondering what you think is the most profitable method of playing these microlimit games? (Ie. Quickest way to build up BR to move to higher limits) How tight/loose should I play and what size bets are standard/appropriate? Is most of the money to be made in stacking people with big hands or continually stealing small pots?
Also, what sort of resources should a newb like me be reading (done a bit of reading on poker theory in the past - but still very lacking - and new to online poker) to improve at this level?
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MiJ
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Miami
Posts: 208
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pretty standard ABC (multitabling) TAG poker , read Rentons strat post in the beginners digest...post some hands when your having trouble and thats all you need to beat everything up to about 100 NL...
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Renton's guide is good. I think you could tighten up a little from there though, because so many micro-limit players are calling stations and won't respect your c-bets. ABC poker is right, big bluffs are almost never called for, unless you run across the rare micro-limit nit. Work on getting reads, writing notes and using those to cater your play to specific opponents. I would add tables slowly, making sure you can still pay close enough attention to get reads as you're doing it.
Welcome to FTR, good luck and keep posting.
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zook
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10-09-2006, 04:33 AM
Post subject: Re: Microlimits [url=http://www.flopturnriver.com/Referrals/
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Oops, didn't respond to these.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ray
How tight/loose should I play and what size bets are standard/appropriate?
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Tight is right, especially starting out and at these stakes. Plenty of time to loosen up and learn to play more hands later. Bet sizing is an art. As general rules I like 4XBB+1BB/limper pre-flop and 3/4-pot bets on the flop, but there are always exceptions. If there are multiple opponents on the flop, or one loosing calling station, pot-sized bets are usually better with made hands. On the turn and river it really depends on the situation. Less than 1/2-pot is unusual, unless you're making a blocking bet and are planning to fold to a raise.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ray
Is most of the money to be made in stacking people with big hands or continually stealing small pots?
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Both 
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ray
Also, what sort of resources should a newb like me be reading (done a bit of reading on poker theory in the past - but still very lacking - and new to online poker) to improve at this level?
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Read the Beginner's Digest posts here thoroughly. As for books, Sklansky's Theory of Poker and No Limit Hold 'Em Theory & Practice are great, but the former isn't precisely aimed at NL and the latter might be a little advanced for a beginning player. But they're still great books. Reading the hand histories forum is good education too.
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ray
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Thanks heaps for the detailed replies. Money hasn't quite registered yet in my account but I'll be getting started tmrw hopefully. Might post how I go if its not too embarassing.
Oh and btw, when people say 25NL does the 25 refer to the max buy-in? I am used to the '10c/20c' format of SB/BB so I'm not entirely what this means.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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yes, $25ln refers to the max buyin for .10/.25
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Key points:
1. Be aggressive - but make sure you understand the term. Aggression used properly involves making big enough bets to force out drawing hands and define your opponent's hands. It does NOT mean overbetting or trying to bully people out of pots when you don't have any justification for doing so, and it does NOT mean bluffing (except in specific pre-definied situations, most of which don't exist at microstakes).
2. Fold if you are getting strong resistance and your hand is marginal or weak. This includes top pair weak kicker (AJ on an Axx flop, for example). If you are playing a good aggressive game you should always be getting useful info on the strength of your opponent's hand - if you play passively, always checking or calling, you will not know where you stand.
3. Don't even think about playing more than 20% of hands (at 10-handed ring). This means all pocket pairs, AJ-AK, KQ, KJ, Axs in late position, suited connectors in late position. Fold everything else. Don't make loose calls from the blinds just because you've already got money invested - only play premium hand from the blinds as they're the worst position on the table. Don't EVER play unsuited aces A9 or less (when you have a bit more experience you might be able to add these, with raises, in late position, but not as a beginner and not at the micr tables).
4. If you have a strong broadway hand like AK, KQ, always raise pre-flop - the idea is to be heads up against one player (2 absolute maximum) on the flop. More than two and you're likely to be beaten by a drawing hand and you may throw away a lot of money if you hit TPTK and they hit a hidden straight.
5. Drawing hands (low to mid pocket pairs, suited connectors, Axs) play well at low limits because people call too much and don't bet enough. But position is very important with drawing hands - you can mostly fold them unless you're cut-off or button. Be aware of the odds you need to make calls with these hands, and make sure you can spot when your outs are dirty (if you have a straight draw and there's a flush draw on the board, the outs you have of the flush's suit may give someone a flush even if you make your straight. Similarly, paired boards make full houses possible, so be careful of them).
6. Don't slowplay unless you have the (post-flop) nuts. Even with AA you want isolation pre-flop and to shut out drawing hands post-flop. The minimum criteria you want for slowplaying is a made set with no obvious draws on a rainbow flop. Don't EVER slowplay two pair or a pair.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
Key points:
6. Don't slowplay unless you have the (post-flop) nuts. Even with AA you want isolation pre-flop and to shut out drawing hands post-flop. The minimum criteria you want for slowplaying is a made set with no obvious draws on a rainbow flop. Don't EVER slowplay two pair or a pair.
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I would just say don't slowplay at all. If you're not betting the nuts, you're going to win a small pot with it. Bet every hand you're supposed to.
Hell, I usually make an overbet at some point with the nuts, and microstakes players love calling them.
There's no reason to slowplay--these players aren't afraid holding Q7 on a TJQ board. They don't care if you have AK, they don't think about it. They just see top pair. Bet ALL your hands. Nuts, TPTK, two pair, whatever.
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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I agree with a lot of the advice here, but you need to find a new site to play at. At the end of the week [I believe thats when it is], partypoker is suspending all real money gaming for US players so you wont be able to play there anymore assuming you are from the US. If you arent then dont worry about it, if you are then check out the poker room network or Full Tilt.
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ray
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10-24-2006, 07:35 AM
Post subject: Progress so far + questions
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#10 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Hey all. I started this topic up a couple of weeks ago asking about how to play the microlimits tables when I was just beginning. Pleased to say things have gone well up till now (~10k hands), although I'm only at 10NL as I wanted to work my way up from the lowest (easiest?) games to start off with. Can't wait to hit the sufficient BR so I can move up to 25NL. Reading the forums and articles have been a huge help to me, so thanks for that.
Didn't get much of a response in my other topic, so just want to ask this again: What setup (in terms of software) do you guys use when you multi-table ring games? I have poker-tracker and have just started observing tables to create a database and am trying to fit gametime+ into my normal 6-tabling routine. For the most part I haven't been using any real-time tracking software, so its a bit of an adjustment playing with all these extra numbers/info on the screen.
Also, in poker tracker, it shows your BB/100. I am quite happy with my ~12BB/100 winrate (should I be at these limits?), but does this mean 12*10c per 100 hands (in 5c/10c $10NL)? From a few quick calculations from my poker tracker info, it seems that calculation only adds up to half my winnings. Could it mean 12 * 20c/100 hands? Bit confused.
Will post pokertracker/pokergrapher stats when I get home. Any replies are appreciated.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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A Poker Tracker Big Bet (i.e. what is being measured) is 2 x big blind (this is a convention taken from limit poker, which Poker Tracker was created to work with).
So, at the 5c/10c tables, one BB (often called PTBB on this board to avoid confusion) is 20c - you are winning $2.40 per 100 hands.
And yes, it is a very respectable winrate - you should be happy with that, and you'll soon be rolled for 10c/25c (when your BR reaches $500). Nice going.
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ray
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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Ahh ok thanks for the explanation. Always thought the BB meant big blind :S Makes sense now.
Anyway, I'm eager to post my poker tracker stats to get some feedback. What info should I post and what is the best way to do that (computer-wise :P) - screenshot and upload?
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Save a screenshot of your stats using the printscreen key and upload it to imageshack. They give you a link, then you can paste that in here.
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ray
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10-25-2006, 12:56 AM
Post subject: Pokertracker stats
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#14 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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My graph:
Pokertracker stats:
General + my biggest winning hands:
Biggest losing hands:
Position stats:
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ray
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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A couple of my own notes from skimming over my PT stats:
All stats are from 12k hands in full-ring (10) $10NL partypoker- - Completing SB too much? (Probably not that big a deal at this limit, and the suckouts almost make up for it)
- I like to think I attempt to steal quite often, although 37% doesn't sound like much. Thoughts?
- I am 22/10.5 - may be a little loose for 10NL but I like to play a bit, and I'll get bored playing 15/8 :P Do I need to adjust for $25NL?
- My AKs/AKo stats are barely break even - Think I make enough money c-betting and playing it strong, but its all offset by overvaluing TPTK (Lose too many big pots)
- Haven't noticed before now, but seems like my KQ, KJ are pretty big losing hands. Looking over them, looks like again its overvaluing top pair or playing scared without top kicker and not betting hard enough and letting draws in. Not sure if I should raise with these hands in early position? Usually do b/c I generally hate playing in unraised pots with semi-decent hands.
- (Not shown in imgs) but my Axs hands seem to be small losers. Maybe paying too much to chase? Although I seem to get paid off often enough when I do hit nut flush.
Position:
- I think position is one area where I can improve a lot in. I realised I'm not nearly positionally aware enough. I'm not sure if limping Axs or K10s in early position is worth it? Also, I think I don't put enough emphasis on post-flop position. I am happy if I can limp with those mentioned hands but don't realise that it makes it that much tougher post-flop.
- Making large % of money on button. No surprise. 15% PFR for button ok? Is 10% PFR from UTG and UTG+1 too high? Maybe I raise with too much from EP.
- VP$IP could be adapted more for position: I find I am loosening up on the button, but my EP discipline is still poor. Need to do both.
And finally, although I am getting better, my most obvious leak to me is overvaluing TPTK or TPGK. I think I am making some better laydowns, but still have to stop leaking money to people who are raising with a range that most probably beats me. Gotta improve on this. Any replies/feedback would be great.
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ray
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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*Bump* No takers so far?
Update: I played my first 25NL games yesterday and got smashed. Down 3 buyins... didn't catch many cards, but also was having c-bets called much more regularly and reraises post-flop forcing me to fold good but not great hands in decent pots. I guess it could be just variance, but didn't feel very good. Anyone else found party 25NL harder than they expected? (Although I have the impression that the regulars here would see it as a piss-easy game...) Or atleast tougher than 10NL :P Again, some feedback on the pokertracker info would be awesome.
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Looks good dude. Don't make too many drastic changes.
Your VPIP from the button should be around twice that from UTG, so maybe you're a bit loose from early position - probably limping alot of speculative stuff up front. That's not a huge problem on a passive table though. 10 Handed I only play AJs, KQs, AQ, AK and all pairs UTG 
Def too loose from the small blind IMO, although I doubt this is a huge leak. Alot of good players on here do play quite loose from that position too.
Good guide to using pokertracker to analyse your play: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...t=1&PHPSESSID=
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Hartlin
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 493
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Good to see someone from start to finish and continuing to keep it up. Good luck man, keep it up!
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