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flyingPenguin
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06-06-2006, 08:43 AM
Post subject: My latest table selection strategy
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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I've found that simply looking for tables with a high see flop % and high average pot sizes just isn't working. There are so many short stacks at tables, and they either don't pay you off or disappear and are replaced by tight players as soon as you sit down. So my new strategy is to look for the following, in order.
1. Full stacks
Ideally everyone at the table would have more than a full stack, but if there are one or two players with short stacks and the rest with full stacks or 4/5 of a stack, that will do. If there are 4 or more short stacks I will avoid the table, even if the other stats are great.
2. High average pot
If I'm happy with the stack sizes, I'll check the average pot size. I'm looking for more than 25bb, but the higher the better. If it's high enough, I'll sign up.
3. High see flop %
This is the least important stat. The higher the better, but if it's 33% and the table gets good marks on points 1 and 2, I'll sign up. If the average pot size is high it usually means there's enough action at the table to get good hands paid off.
Of course, once I'm at the table if I find I don't like either the table or the seat I leave (hopefully). This should always be the case though. I've been doing it this way for a couple of weeks now and it's been much more successful than just looking for high flop and pot sizes.
I play $25NL at PokerRoom, where most see flop % are between 32% and 38%, and I (try to) play TAG.
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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how many players are at PokerRoom on average? I have heard some good things about them, but the last couple of sites I've played with 3-4k players just kill me -
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LimpinAintEZ
how many players are at PokerRoom on average? I have heard some good things about them, but the last couple of sites I've played with 3-4k players just kill me - |
http://www.pokersitescout.com/index.asp
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Awaji E
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Japan
Posts: 61
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I agree with half of #1. It's good to have full stacks to your right, acting before you, but it's also good to have short stacks to your left, acting after you.
If you have position on someone, you want them to have lots of money, so you can take it.
If someone has position on you, you want them to have only a little money, so they're less dangerous to you.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Awaji E
I agree with half of #1. It's good to have full stacks to your right, acting before you, but it's also good to have short stacks to your left, acting after you.
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This might be true for the 2 or 3 places acting after you, but generally when you sit at a table you can't choose the seat. If there are 3 short stacks at a table, there's a good chance that one or two will be in the half of the table in front of you. I would rather everyone on the table have full stacks.
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geoffm33
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 166
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Question: In general, if a player is constantly reloading up to max buyin (drop down to $9, reload to $10 before the next hand.) Would you tend to think they were a decent player? Atleast knowledgeable enough to maximize value by staying at/near the max buyin?
I ask because of requirement #1. Obviously we don't want a lot of shorties, but if a bunch of people were a few dollars under max buyin I'd consider them a little fishy? Comments?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Geoff OTM. Too many 100BB+ stacks makes me nervous. I'd rather have a smattering of shorter stacks (not 20xBB but 50-60 is fine) and no huge stacks.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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I'm totally different.. afraid of noone. I don't really care how "good" people are, I just need to know how they play. If there's a huge stack at the table, I really want to sit down if I can have decent position on him.
I sit down at tables with enough money. If they're all nits, I'll look to leave if they aren't getting riled up by my play. If the ones that are Laggs, floaters or play back at me have position on me, I'll probably want to leave unless they're real donks.
Btw you should put "% to see flop" above average pot size.. high pot size often means a few guys just got busted, so the stat doesn't apply anymore.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Btw you should put "% to see flop" above average pot size.. high pot size often means a few guys just got busted, so the stat doesn't apply anymore.
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But a high see flop % and low average pot size (say 8 - 12 bb) means that lots of people are seeing the flop and then folding to any bets, or playing limit style no limit. Both of these mean you aren't going to get any good hands paid off, which in turn means you might as well not be there (unless your style is taking loads of small pots).
That's another thing that's been annoying me lately, along with all the short buy-ins, is everybody min raising. I think this is a new trend. It seems either a bunch of limit players have moved over, or everyone's been reading limit books. They raise and re-raise a good range of hands, but it's all min raises. I find it hard to play against these players. Their raise may be -EV for them, but is also -EV for me if I have a weaker calling hand like AK.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Thing is, if they're all playing a passive minraising game amongst themselves, while seeing a lot of flops, then this has the potential of being a great table. They'll probably shit their pants and fold the first two times you raise big, but then they'll start calling.. and some of them might even be inspired to start betting bigger too (cuz it's crazy and fun!). This is how it is/seems to me, you have a different experience at those tables?
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Yes I do. They're don't seem to be playing passive or weak game at all. I have to keep my reraising range the same, because they will be min-raising with AA - JJ, AK -AJ etc, and calling reraises and rereraising with a decent range. The only major difference I can see between their tight preflop play and mine is that horrible min-raise.
It's only certain times that this crew are around, but when they are they're there in abundance.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yes my experience is the same as what you say. And what I mean by 'passive' here is that the minraising keeps the pots relatively small - as opposed to when people like us would be there and raise it proper amounts. So the pots might seem small, but with a high seeflop%, these tables can be quite good.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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dsmrolla06
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Bend IN
Posts: 724
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Ive noticed that when theres 2-3 limpers in the pot, the bb will often make a reraise. I dont really know what theyre trying to achieve with that raise other than sweetin the pot preflop, but it irritates me when i limp in trying to see a cheap flop then having to put in another BB. The minraise is probly my least favorite move from any player.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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the truth is most games aren't "good" games, they are just average games. Probably 75% of the tables you see in a day are average games, if not bad games which you should avoid. Especially online.
I've done very well with being picky at which games I play in online, and preferably playing in live games at the casino or at friends houses. Someone who plays 365 days a year may show the same or less profit than someone who uses superb game selection and plays 1/4 of that.
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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So what do you look for in a "good" game, jmontis?
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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I like to sit on the tables that let me be the hot chick. People like to give money to the hot chick.
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