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My first proper downswing.

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jameseyb

03-06-2007, 11:23 AM Post subject: My first proper downswing.

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

This last week has a dark day for my bankroll... I've heard Biondino talk about his downswing before and thought I could learn from that and not hit one myself. I was wrong.

I took a 2 buyin hit last night at Party on the $10NL tables, plus losing two entries in $5 SNGs on Syndi. Add that to Friday's buyin lost with my aces cracked and my BR is looking poorly. I'm not sure if I'm on tilt or not. I certainly don't think I played any hands that lost me lots of money really badly, but if you are Kings full on the river and you get re-raised, you're going to call. That the guy flipped over a pair of nines to give him quads was just unlikely. I don't mind that.

I don't even mind my kings running into aces _again_ last night. Ok, I didn't improve, but when all is said and done, it's happened before and I can cope with it. I can even cope with my aces getting busted by a pair of 2s (last Friday's treat and another buyin lost) because I know that the other 87% of the time I'm going to be the one taking away a stack that wasn't mine. No, what really worries me is that I can't see the leaks happening. At one table, I just could not get value on my big hands. I got quads for about the third or fourth time in my history and made less than a dollar. I get nut flushes and can't raise because I know the oppos will fold.

I know this sounds like a typical whiney posting, but it has just knocked me to see my previous 17ptBB/100 form getting a brutalising on tables I know I can beat.

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sandstorm

03-06-2007, 11:27 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Sweden

Posts: 573

Quote:

I took a 2 buyin hit last night at Party on the $10NL tables, plus losing two entries in $5 SNGs on Syndi. Add that to Friday's buyin lost with my aces cracked and my BR is looking poorly.

-----
how big roll do you have?

>3

this is my favourite part of the post
it looks like angry boobs

Da GOAT

03-06-2007, 11:30 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Feb 2006

Location: Dublin

Posts: 4,308

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandstorm

I took a 2 buyin hit last night at Party on the $10NL tables, plus losing two entries in $5 SNGs on Syndi. Add that to Friday's buyin lost with my aces cracked and my BR is looking poorly.

-----
how big roll do you have?

LOL sandstorm i thought for a sec you went on a huge downswing and ended up there. Learn to quote mofo lol

Agreed, OP how much do you have remaining

Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.

biondino

03-06-2007, 12:02 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

I've heard Biondino talk about his downswing before

DownsingS, dude. And considerably bigger ones than the one you're talking about

(OP is slightly overrolled for $10NL - he has about $280 or so I think but I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong)

jameseyb

03-06-2007, 12:39 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

Biondino, you're pretty much spot on. I was up to about $350, but that's down now.

Call it a round $300 and be generous to me.

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http://gunsonfilm.blogspot.com/
***************************************

jyms

03-06-2007, 01:31 PM Post subject: Re: My first proper downswing.

#6 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by jameseyb

This last week has a dark day for my bankroll... I've heard Biondino talk about his downswing before and thought I could learn from that and not hit one myself. I was wrong.

I took a 2 buyin hit last night at Party on the $10NL tables, plus losing two entries in $5 SNGs on Syndi. Add that to Friday's buyin lost with my aces cracked and my BR is looking poorly. I'm not sure if I'm on tilt or not. I certainly don't think I played any hands that lost me lots of money really badly, but if you are Kings full on the river and you get re-raised, you're going to call. That the guy flipped over a pair of nines to give him quads was just unlikely. I don't mind that.

I don't even mind my kings running into aces _again_ last night. Ok, I didn't improve, but when all is said and done, it's happened before and I can cope with it. I can even cope with my aces getting busted by a pair of 2s (last Friday's treat and another buyin lost) because I know that the other 87% of the time I'm going to be the one taking away a stack that wasn't mine. No, what really worries me is that I can't see the leaks happening. At one table, I just could not get value on my big hands. I got quads for about the third or fourth time in my history and made less than a dollar. I get nut flushes and can't raise because I know the oppos will fold.

I know this sounds like a typical whiney posting, but it has just knocked me to see my previous 17ptBB/100 form getting a brutalising on tables I know I can beat.

Let's look at this as stated. Do you plan to ever move up? Do you plan to ever play for pots bigger than $10, $30, $100. Losing buy ins is part of the game, having downswings is part of the game. The only thing that you spoke about that is not part of the game is tilt. If you are tilting at any point, over losing a hand, a buy in or having a downswing, take a break. A long break. Maybe quit poker.

This may seem a little harsh, and this is not directed just at you Jameseyb, but all the beginners out there. I've been spending some time discussing tilt with some players that not only play higher stakes, but play for life altering money. If you understand poker. The math involved in every decision. The math involved in AA getting cracked. The math involved in running into AA with KK. And the reasons why we have BR management, to protect against inevitable downswings and variance, then why are you (or anybody) tilting. GET OVER IT! The only unforgivable aspect of your play will be losing more money, playing on tilt.

Why would someone with half a brain (again, not just pointing this out to you Jameseyb) that understands poker, understands the math, studies the game, practices good BR management to protect against variance, TILT because of said variance, and turn a 3 or 4 buy in down swing into a 10 or 15 buy in downswing by not playing optimal poker on every hand.

And I'd like to point out, if you can't learn to control tilt at the $10NL, $25NL and $50NL levels, how in the hell will everyone of you, EVERYONE OF YOU who dreams of playing like our beloved FTR regulars at $5/$10 and higher ever be able to play in a $1000 pot and push that edge. Ok, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you "just play for fun" and don't want to play at those stakes. Then why all the tilt?? If it's for fun, and you play to relax, why Tilt??? Have fun, smile and type NH, move on, but either way, pick a side and stop tilting.

SERIOUSLY, STOP TILTING OVER NICKLES OR THE $1K POTS WILL NEVER HAPPEN, EVER!!!! learn to play without tilt now at $10NL or you may never play for fun or money.

I can guarantee, this did not make me tilt.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $46.20
CO: $71.50
Hero: $268.75
SB: $107.62
BB: $46.90

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with A

UTG calls, CO folds, Hero raises to $5, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 4

($16, 3 players)
SB bets $7, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 2

($30, 2 players)
SB is all-in $95.62, Hero calls.

River: T

($221.24, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $221.24)

Results:
Final pot: $221.24
SB Shows 4c Kd
Hero Shows Ah Ks

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

biondino

03-06-2007, 01:34 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

The words of an ex-tilter, ladies & gentlemen.

jameseyb

03-06-2007, 01:50 PM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Sapley, Cambs.

Posts: 169

Thanks for the replies guys and Trainer, I mean that. I'm not tilty about the downswing in any major way. Yes, it hurt a bit when the aces got cracked, but I _know_ that they will from time to time and, like I said in my post, the rest of the time, I'll take the pot down with them.

Lets talk about where I want to go for a moment... I started off playing $25NL before I was properly rolled and lost a lot of money, lets again be generous and only call it 10 buyins. I'm fine with that as you could call it a learning tax I am happy to pay. Biondino and a lot of other good guys helped me a lot and I dropped down to $10NL where I felt I could get myself properly rolled and then, WHEN I WAS ROLLED FOR IT move back to $25NL. I've been tempted to move back to $25 recently, but each time I have had the self discipline to stay where I am because my BR was not where I wanted and needed it to be for the move. I'm working my way up and I will carry on doing that until I can get to the levels I want to play at, eventually making a bit of extra cash a month.

Do I ever plan to play for pots larger than $10? Hell yes I do. Just wait till I get rolled for $50NL or better. I'll happily put my stack on aces then, just as I would now. If they get cracked, that's poker. If I played my hand as well as I could and it got beaten, then that's ok. The only thing that really annoys me is the lucky clown leaving the table before I've had a chance to get all my money back.

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http://gunsonfilm.blogspot.com/
***************************************

jyms

03-06-2007, 01:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by jameseyb

The only thing that really annoys me is the lucky clown leaving the table before I've had a chance to get all my money back.

That used to bug me too, until I realized how many of them leave other tables and then come to mine, and bust to me. I can't tell you how many players I bust in a night that never re buy, they are all the same cloth. All they do is bring the money from other tables to me, same as taking money from me to other tables. The hit and runs are not always on my tables alone.

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

Miffed22001

03-06-2007, 08:26 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

I know this sounds like a typical whiney posting, but it has just knocked me to see my previous 17ptBB/100 form getting a brutalising on tables I know I can beat.

Your winrate should be less important than your bankroll size IMO.
You cant continue to run at 17bbs/100, if you think you can you are looking too much at stats rather than at actually improving or building a bankroll.
Face it, you will run bad and loose buy ins. If you think otherwise its because you havent played enough hands.

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