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My biggest leak - betting for value (hands inside)

  
 
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Robert
Old 08-18-2005, 07:07 PM     Post subject: My biggest leak - betting for value (hands inside) #1 (permalink)  
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A leak in my game is when I hit a hand and I'm almost sure I have my opp beat, I dont know how much to bet for value (when not trying to slowplay).

Fnords sticky says to "drop the fucking hammer" - but how much do I need to bet then? ½ pot, potsized or even overbetting the pot? I know this depends on the circumstances, but lets say for example I'm up against this loose passive player (typical fish in NL $25 on Party), how much do you typical bet when hitting a hand you are almost sure is better than your opponents?

Here's 2 hands where I was pretty sure I had my opponent beat, but I was pretty much acting in the dark when trying to figure out how much to bet for value (my read on both opps was loose passive):

***** Hand History for Game 2555983838 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 18, 13:47:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 36954 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: speedraiser2 ( $7.15 )
Seat 3: najls111 ( $37.95 )
Seat 4: H2Oman23 ( $54.05 )
Seat 5: codeman365 ( $24.43 )
Seat 9: bluffboy200 ( $25.70 )
Seat 10: jenniii ( $25.65 )
Seat 7: bluffknot ( $13 )
Seat 8: Boogie711 ( $25.90 )
Seat 1: Shamgod23 ( $26.85 )
Seat 6: raptorquick ( $24.50 )
raptorquick posts small blind [$0.10].
bluffknot posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bluffboy200 [ Qd As ]
Boogie711 folds.
bluffboy200 raises [$1].
jenniii folds.
Shamgod23 folds.
speedraiser2 folds.
najls111 folds.
H2Oman23 calls [$1].
codeman365 folds.
raptorquick folds.
codeman365: gh
bluffknot folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 8d, Qs ]
bluffboy200 bets [$1].
H2Oman23 calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
bluffboy200 bets [$2].
H2Oman23 calls [$2].
** Dealing River ** [ 7d ]
bluffboy200 bets [$3].
>You have options at Table 36570 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36570 Table!.
H2Oman23 calls [$3].
bluffboy200 shows [ Qd, As ] a pair of queens.
>You have options at Table 36570 Table!.
H2Oman23 doesn't show [ 9c, 9h ] a pair of nines.
bluffboy200 wins $13.65 from the main pot with a pair of queens


v***** Hand History for Game 2556183088 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 18, 14:40:43 EDT 2005
Table Table 36954 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: speedraiser2 ( $8.85 )
Seat 4: H2Oman23 ( $41.55 )
Seat 9: bluffboy200 ( $64.70 )
Seat 6: raptorquick ( $19.45 )
Seat 7: jonte77 ( $42.65 )
Seat 10: legend240 ( $25.40 )
Seat 3: Nybble ( $10.70 )
Seat 1: missy84 ( $24.50 )
Seat 5: Tonyone1 ( $22.16 )
Seat 8: WinnieJan ( $13.17 )
Tonyone1 posts small blind [$0.10].
raptorquick posts big blind [$0.25].
jonte77 posts big blind + dead [$0.35].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bluffboy200 [ Qd Kc ]
>You have options at Table 36788 Table!.
jonte77 checks.
WinnieJan folds.
>You have options at Table 36788 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36788 Table!.
bluffboy200 calls [$0.25].
legend240 folds.
missy84 folds.
speedraiser2 folds.
Nybble folds.
Tonyone1 calls [$0.15].
raptorquick checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Kh, Qh ]
Tonyone1 checks.
raptorquick checks.
jonte77 checks.
bluffboy200: trips
bluffboy200 bets [$1].
>You have options at Table 36788 Table!.
Tonyone1 calls [$1].
raptorquick folds.
jonte77 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
Tonyone1 checks.
bluffboy200 bets [$1.50].
Tonyone1 calls [$1.50].
** Dealing River ** [ Ac ]
Tonyone1 checks.
bluffboy200 bets [$4].
Tonyone1 calls [$4].
bluffboy200 shows [ Qd, Kc ] a full house, Kings full of queens.
Tonyone1 doesn't show [ Kd, 8s ] three of a kind, kings.
bluffboy200 wins $13.40 from the main pot with a full house, Kings full of queens.
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:42 PM #2 (permalink)  
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bet at least half the pot
in the first hand you bet only a dollar into a 2.35 pot
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DimitriT
Old 08-18-2005, 07:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I'm not a big fan of DTFH although I know alot of folks swear by it at the lower limits. I'd rather try and get a read on my opponent. I want to figure out what type of hands he might be holding (tough to do with a passive plr) and bet accordingly. If the board is obviously dangerous (like the paired Ks in your second hand) and he calls a reasonable bet on the turn (2/3 pot), I will come at him with a strong river bet knowing he probably is holding KX. If the board is raggy and I have an overpair, I will bet strongly (pot sized) if I know he likes to play AX hands. An aggressive player who plays back at you is a little easier to read in this situation and you should also factor in what you think your image is. If you've been pushing the guy around and you think he's holding TPTK against your set, DTFH. He may call figuring to bust you on another steal attempt.
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jmontis
Old 08-18-2005, 08:00 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I'm pretty wreckless when it comes to betting against bad opponents, if they have a draw, they are going to call unless they are Sklanzky readers.

Read Fnord's deep money thread. In theory, you are going to be playing better hands than them, and your made hands are going to beat their draws/lucky hands in the long run, so bet them.
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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wreckless
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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jmontis
Old 08-18-2005, 08:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontis
wreckless
not really, i play good hands, and i like to bet big.
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:08 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by jmontis
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmontis
wreckless
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
not really, i play good hands, and i like to bet big.
pase por la encima
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Dassin
Old 08-19-2005, 07:11 AM #8 (permalink)  

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Betting less than half the pot is dropping the fucking decorative throw pillow.
 
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Greedo017
Old 08-19-2005, 07:43 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 A. this is not your biggest leak. it is at worst a minor leak.

B. sig'd
i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
 
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Robert
Old 08-19-2005, 07:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Well, not getting enough money out of the fish with your good hands in NL $25 on party is a major leak imo, because the extra money adds up over time.
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Dassin
Old 08-19-2005, 07:54 AM #11 (permalink)  

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Getting the money out of the fish is an art. On BoDog, which I see as Party sans the sharks, some of the games get absolutely INSANE. For example: On Party, prima, Poker Room, etc, if I bet 4xBB UTG, I will get maybe 2 callers. On BoDog, expect 5 callers. Against these people who will call with anything, you can milk more out of them by being less "safe" about it. Hell, sometimes just going all in with the nuts works, they sometimes expect you to be bluffing.

But BoDog giveth, and BoDog taketh for sure, you will get sucked out on sometimes. If you do some good table selection at party, you can probably come up with some of these tables as well, and "DTFH", as they say, which I consider to be overbetting the pot.
 
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