Originally Posted by LockLow34

How would you play it?

Question 1:
How much to bet if it's checked to you?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Say you bet and get at least 2 callers and suspect at least 1 is drawing to a flush...

2 things can happen on the turn:

1) the 3rd flush card comes

Question 2:
What do you do if it's checked to you again?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Question 3:
What do you do if you bet out and are check-raised?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

2) the flush card doesn't come

Question 4:
How much do you bet?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

How would you play it?

Question 1:
How much to bet if it's checked to you?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Say you bet and get at least 2 callers and suspect at least 1 is drawing to a flush...

2 things can happen on the turn:

1) the 3rd flush card comes

Question 2:
What do you do if it's checked to you again?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Question 3:
What do you do if you bet out and are check-raised?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

2) the flush card doesn't come

Question 4:
How much do you bet?

Originally Posted by montimus

With pots that size, you want to get all your money in there with the best hand...if I get sucked out by someone willing to risk his entire stack on the draw, then fine

If I'm in that position, I'm making them pay their entire stack(s) to see that next diamond.

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Here are my thoughts:

I'd underbet the pot by about 1/2 if you think the player will chase you for his whole stack. Basically you don't want to get all-in and lose to a suck-out if the flush comes on the turn.

I'd bet the same amount I bet on the flop. If I get check-raised or flat called, my plan is to check behind on the river.

I'd give it up here to a large check-raise. Chances are he's got you beat, if not with the flush then with 2 pair or a set.

Here I would slam it home. If he wants to see the last card it's his stack. If he's been slow-playing a set (how likely is that on a 2 flush board in a multi-way pot? you'd most likely get check-raised on the flop) more power to him. Bad players chasing a flush or holding weak aces will almost always call (and lose). Smaller pocket pairs will likely fold.

Originally Posted by doggz

This makes no sense. If I'm the favorite I want to push all my chips every single time. Sure, I'm going to lose a pot here and there, but that's poker. Why give him odds to draw you out?

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

The problem is that with a large pot, a push is actually callable by the odds. A flush is better than 33% to come by the river. If the pot is 86% or more of the size of the bet you make on the flop AND they are guaranteed not to have to pay more on the turn, then it's a mistake to fold a flush draw here. If someone else makes the mistake of calling before a flush draw, then it doesn't matter how big your bet - even without the pot they are getting better than their odds just calling again yours and the other caller's bet. Bet the flop, but don't bet so much that you can't bet again to take their odds away on the turn.

- Jeffrey

Originally Posted by montimus

Someone likely has an ace and there's a good chance you've got them outkicked.

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

Am I missing something here? How is 17bb a big pot with 100bb stacks? Why is there discussion of going all in on the flop with TPTK? It would be a huge mistake calling with a nut flush draw as a lone caller. Only in the unusual situation of 2 or more all ins in front of you can you consider calling, keep in mind that its likely some of your flush outs are countered by a set or 2pair comleting to a full house.

All-in on the flop is a terrible move with TPTK for a 17bb pot with 100bb stacks, only sets or 2 pair will call if they are next to act and thereafter flushdraws will be getting odds to call.

Originally Posted by montimus

The point is, if you're not going to play AK aggressively(after a large preflop raise) when A rag rag flops with 2 to a flush flops, why even play it/raise it preflop in the first place?

You've got to assume that with a preflop raise like that, you're dealing with PPs, high cards and decent suited connectors, or Ax. The only two hands I'd be worried about here are trips or A10. Most people I've encountered typically don't check/raise or slowplay two pair.

I'm really not worried about the flush draw calling me all-in. Most decent players aren't willing to call their entire stack with only 4 to a flush, and those who make that gamble do tend to leave the table broke at some point or another.

Originally Posted by montimus

The point is, if you're not going to play AK aggressively(after a large preflop raise) when A rag rag flops (even with 2 to a flush), why even play it/raise it preflop in the first place? You've caught your hand. The flop is the time to put people to the test.

You've got to assume that with a preflop raise like that, you're dealing with PPs, high cards and decent suited connectors, or Ax. The only two hands I'd be worried about here are trips or A10. Most people I've encountered typically don't check/raise or slowplay two pair, so the main hand you've got to worry about is trip 10s or 6s.

I'm really not worried about the flush draw calling me all-in. Most decent players aren't willing to call their entire stack with only 4 to a flush, and those who make that gamble do tend to leave the table broke at some point or another.

Originally Posted by Fnord

Originally Posted by Fnord

..and I'm going to keep repeating this until you address the most fucking important part of this problem.

Originally Posted by LockLow34

LOL

Assume relatively even stacks of ~50bb each.