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kevster
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10-15-2007, 01:21 PM
Post subject: Multi-tabling
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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I'm after some hints/tips on multitabling but can't seem to find any stickys/posts specifically dedicated to this.
I'd appreciate a link or two if anyone has one or if someone wants to go for it and post some general tips.
Thx
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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Tip number 1:
Dont play at ongame
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jibalob
Tip number 1:
Dont play at ongame |
why?
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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You cant run more than 3 tables at once without the software going crazy - the tables freeze, buttons disappear and the visuals lag far far behind the audio.
Its like instant tilt
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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I don't like their software but I do manage to 4 table without too many probs. Very occassionaly a table freezes up but this is often down to my net connection.
Do you use PT, if so when is the last time you deleted your stats DB?
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Jibalob
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
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I use PO not PT and have cleared all my stats since the last Ongame update.
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PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Never used PO, but most of my ongame issues used to be caused by hand imports with PT - have got it sussed how to set it up now though...
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Multitabling takes some getting used to for sure. It's easier if you play full ring. Just start adding one table at a time. It is really really easy once you have played so many hands that you know what to do in almost any situation. Here are my tips:
1) Get a 20" (or larger) 1600x1200 resolution monitor
2) Arrange your tables in a way that you will never accidentally click an action button while you are checking the auto-action buttons.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Turska
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10-16-2007, 07:18 AM
Post subject: Ongame is fine
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#9 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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I 8-table there with client. NP.
T.
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kevster
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Fold City
Posts: 758
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Multitabling takes some getting used to for sure. It's easier if you play full ring. Just start adding one table at a time. It is really really easy once you have played so many hands that you know what to do in almost any situation. Here are my tips:
1) Get a 20" (or larger) 1600x1200 resolution monitor
2) Arrange your tables in a way that you will never accidentally click an action button while you are checking the auto-action buttons.
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Wow, 1 reply from 8 to the OP isn't bad you thread hijacking mofo's!!
Thanks Martin. Ok, so I probably need more experience as I'm still grinding the micros and haven't played that many hands.
Any more tips anyone?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Multitabling takes some getting used to for sure. It's easier if you play full ring. Just start adding one table at a time. It is really really easy once you have played so many hands that you know what to do in almost any situation. Here are my tips:
1) Get a 20" (or larger) 1600x1200 resolution monitor
2) Arrange your tables in a way that you will never accidentally click an action button while you are checking the auto-action buttons.
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its really not even necessary to have a 20" w/ 1600x1200 anymore because you can resize the tables. I use a 19" and a 22" widescreen and can comfortably play 10 tables without any overlap. This is at stars though, but even when i was playing at AP and had overlap, it was manageable.
Like martin said though, just make sure you set up so that you have a minimal chance of accidentally clicking an action button.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Multitabling takes some getting used to for sure. It's easier if you play full ring. Just start adding one table at a time. It is really really easy once you have played so many hands that you know what to do in almost any situation. Here are my tips:
1) Get a 20" (or larger) 1600x1200 resolution monitor
2) Arrange your tables in a way that you will never accidentally click an action button while you are checking the auto-action buttons.
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its really not even necessary to have a 20" w/ 1600x1200 anymore because you can resize the tables. I use a 19" and a 22" widescreen and can comfortably play 10 tables without any overlap. This is at stars though, but even when i was playing at AP and had overlap, it was manageable.
Like martin said though, just make sure you set up so that you have a minimal chance of accidentally clicking an action button. |
ya i forgot about the resizing thing. fitting 8 tiny tables on my single monitor gets pretty annoying though.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i dont understand why we must resize the tables? if we are basically playing abc poker, and not making a ton of reads, just basically playing the top end cards (15/9, etc), then, why dont we just "cascade" them?
works fine for me. i just make sure i can see enough of the table that i can see when the auto-buttons pop up. that way i can get to my table before my turn to act.
i dont know how anyone actually watches 6-8 tables at once, and can follow anything with a thought process while they are acting on another table anyway.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
i dont understand why we must resize the tables? if we are basically playing abc poker, and not making a ton of reads, just basically playing the top end cards (15/9, etc), then, why dont we just "cascade" them?
works fine for me. i just make sure i can see enough of the table that i can see when the auto-buttons pop up. that way i can get to my table before my turn to act.
i dont know how anyone actually watches 6-8 tables at once, and can follow anything with a thought process while they are acting on another table anyway.
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lol it comes naturally after a while. to answer your question though...it's nice to easily see what's going on at a table when you are in a big pot without having to click back to it while it's your turn to act on 7 other tables. also, i like to use the auto-fold and check/fold buttons and cascading doesn't help with that. like i said i don't tile them though. i just arrange them in a way so that the action buttons don't overlap anywhere.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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grnydrowave2
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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Ughhhh, cascading? The thought of playing 8 tables like that give me a headache. The only reason why anyone would do that (that I can think of) would be if they only had one monitor.
Just get a 2nd one, it's worth it.
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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ya cascading is just ugly. 2 monitors is def. easiest. i only have my single 20-incher currently, but i do fine with 8 full size tables splattered all over my screen. it looks nasty but there's a system to it 
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Get a HUD (head's up display, since this is a beginner's thread). Having stats on most opponents during every hand was an amazing improvement for me. I used to never multi-table successfully, now I quad-table almost exclusively. I use PT/PA HUD, and as you make your plays you have great reads on many opponents.
BTW, does anyone multi-table without a HUD? I think I would go nuts trying it now that I've seen the other side.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Get a HUD (head's up display, since this is a beginner's thread). Having stats on most opponents during every hand was an amazing improvement for me. I used to never multi-table successfully, now I quad-table almost exclusively. I use PT/PA HUD, and as you make your plays you have great reads on many opponents.
BTW, does anyone multi-table without a HUD? I think I would go nuts trying it now that I've seen the other side.
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i don't use an HUD
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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grnydrowave2
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Showin' mah Pokemans
Posts: 651
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HUDs aren't completely necessary at microstakes since we're playing mostly ABC. I'm not going to 3-bet light at this level because someone has a wide pfr range, or anything fancy like that. However, I find the c-bet %s, folds to cbet %s, and WSD/W$SD to be extremely useful stats.
At the very least I would recommend autorating the weak/tights and call stations and just displaying their respective icons.
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<SrslySirius> Hal Lubarsky, my nemesis.
<SaltLick> are you seriously losing to a blind guy
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Turska
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10-17-2007, 07:01 AM
Post subject: No HUDs necessary
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#20 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 254
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I had HUD for a while but noticed that I dont really need it.
If you 8-table a month in any pokerroom you get to know the
regulars and avoid them. Basic TAG style is not very profitable
at lower stakes. I got slightly different tactics.
I guess 100 NL and up you need more aggression. Passive play
is rewarded at lower stakes.
Widescreen monitor is a must I have Sony 1920x1200 monitor
where I can play 7 tables without probelm. If I resize tables I can
8-table with 1 monitor. Usually I use 2 monitors. 6 tables at
widescreen and 2 in regular monitor.
T.
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Mikefive
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 13
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I have a 24 inch screen and can fit 12 tables on it without overlapping, using a pokerroom that supports miniview.
Greetz
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I've 30-tabled SNGs on a 17" crt with a shitty resolution. You guys with big monitors are pussies.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I've 30-tabled SNGs on a 17" crt with a shitty resolution. You guys with big monitors are pussies.
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haha awesome
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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I'm quite happy just to cascade 5 or 6 tables on my 24 inch monitor
my brain just seems to work better that way
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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Mikefive
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 13
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Quote:
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I've 30-tabled SNGs on a 17" crt with a shitty resolution. You guys with big monitors are pussies.
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My pussie loves guys with big monitors.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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one thing i like about not tiling my tables is that when it's my turn to act on a table that table always pops up right in my face. i don't have to look at all 8 tables when i hear the little beep noise.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
BTW, does anyone multi-table without a HUD? I think I would go nuts trying it now that I've seen the other side.
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i don't use a HUD |
Do you use PT or some other software to track your HH and analyze your own play? And if so, do you ever analyze any of the regulars when you're analyzing your own hands? Just wondering.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
BTW, does anyone multi-table without a HUD? I think I would go nuts trying it now that I've seen the other side.
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i don't use a HUD |
Do you use PT or some other software to track your HH and analyze your own play? And if so, do you ever analyze any of the regulars when you're analyzing your own hands? Just wondering. |
yes i use PT. i check my database for anyone who looks like a regular and take note of how they play everything. after you log like 1k hands or so with them you can usually put them on a narrow range when they raise preflop.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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huds should be banned, especially for players under 1/2.
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
im a huge donk for not using all the resources available to me!
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
im a huge donk for not using all the resources available to me!
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reading hands owns without needing stats.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
im a huge donk for not using all the resources available to me!
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reading hands owns without needing stats. |
Miffed, your comment, while probably true, is off target. This guy is a newbie asking about multi-tabling. Playing one table at a time, I am nearly as good at hand reading with or w/o a HUD. But when quad tabling, a quick reminder of who's playing how is extremely helpful. I don't see how you could think differently (but let me know if you do).
Example: I flip back to a table, in late position, with K2 suited. Everyone has folded a to MP raiser (4xBB), the everyone folds to me. All right, if he's 25/10 and AF > 2, I'm out of there, knowing my hand is so dominated that even position won't save me, and he won't leave me pot odds to call. If he's 75/45 (like a guy I played last night), I'm calling or raising with what otherwise would be completely unplayable hands.
That's extreme, but many other decisions have completely opposite answers based on just those 3 numbers. I don't see how I personally could keep accurate track of them while multitabling.
For me, not using a HUD on 1 table may be almost the same EV as with one. But my EV on 4 tables at once would see a HUGE drop off. If the new guy wants to be successful multitabling, he needs more than DSL and big high-res monitor. PT is a definite must. HUD should be seriously considered.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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i think PT numbers are overrated until you have a large number of hands on ppl. but by then you should have already analyzed their game in PT and shouldn't need their numbers anyways.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bode
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
im a huge donk for not using all the resources available to me!
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reading hands owns without needing stats. |
Miffed, your comment, while probably true, is off target. This guy is a newbie asking about multi-tabling. Playing one table at a time, I am nearly as good at hand reading with or w/o a HUD. But when quad tabling, a quick reminder of who's playing how is extremely helpful. I don't see how you could think differently (but let me know if you do).
Example: I flip back to a table, in late position, with K2 suited. Everyone has folded a to MP raiser (4xBB), the everyone folds to me. All right, if he's 25/10 and AF > 2, I'm out of there, knowing my hand is so dominated that even position won't save me, and he won't leave me pot odds to call. If he's 75/45 (like a guy I played last night), I'm calling or raising with what otherwise would be completely unplayable hands.
That's extreme, but many other decisions have completely opposite answers based on just those 3 numbers. I don't see how I personally could keep accurate track of them while multitabling.
For me, not using a HUD on 1 table may be almost the same EV as with one. But my EV on 4 tables at once would see a HUGE drop off. If the new guy wants to be successful multitabling, he needs more than DSL and big high-res monitor. PT is a definite must. HUD should be seriously considered. |
age old argument.
Ive always posted that you should be able to identify players in small stakes games and recognise lines without the need to look at stats before you need to consider other things in your game.
i have to disagree with any one who says small stakes players need a HUD.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
i have to disagree with any one who says small stakes players need a HUD.
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You say small stakes players don't need a HUD. I agree. BUT they do NEED PT or a similar HH database system. We probably agree on that.
It appears we disagree about the HUD, but I've learned about a billion things I didn't know about my game using one at small stakes. I guess you would argue I should have learned these things another way. Perhaps you're right.
Here's one example. I'm quad tabling and notice that one table completely disrespects my raises while the other won't play a hand with me. I'm opening the same hands on both. I'm 80+ hands at each table and check my own VP$P. I've opened nearly 45% of hands at one table. I've opened only 15% at the other table. It was just great cards, but people thought I was loose/maniac.
I've read lots of articles on table image and how to alter your play based on it, but that one incident really taught me to think about my image and play appropriately. I don't think I would have learned that lesson without the HUD. But playing a line appropriate to your table image is +EV, getting more calls when you're ahead, right? So the HUD helped me, a newbie, learn something valuable.
I feel I could win at small stakes without it, but I would have to play 1 table. But I can make the same BB/100 on 4 tables with it.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Using/Not using a HUD shouldn't affect your winrate very much imo.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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sorry OP i have no new multitabling advice to offer to your thread. 
As for the HUD discussion, i definitely agree with Robb. The HUD is a really useful way to obtain a quick reminder about how your opponents are playing, one i definitely need when i am playing 4 or 5 tables at once.
The HUD stat c-bet%, for example, is a stat that i only recently added but has already been really useful for me. I can, without needing to stop and try to recall information i observed from looking at hands in my database, see how often my opponent is contination betting and decide if i prefer to check/raise with my strong hand or if i had better put a bet in myself as he tends to c-bet only 45-50%.
Miffed i don't understand why you think the HUD would only be useful beyond small stakes games. Explain?
p.s. OP i love your avatar!!!
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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There are some bits of advice that are less tangible than HUD/monitor advice, but probably more useful. The firs - and it may seem obvious - is add one table at a time. It's astonishing the difference simply playing 2 tables has on your game - it's like your thought processes are suddenly interrupted, and it takes a few thousand hands to get used to it. Beyond that, it does get easier, but I still recommend you add gradually as there is inevitably a period where you're playing sub-optimally - and tilting on 4 tables is a lot more dangerous than tilting on one.
As for the HUD argument, I find it very useful when determining my autopilot plays. Tricksier play, though, will always require specific reads as well as HUD info.
HUDs aren't completely necessary at microstakes since we're playing mostly ABC.
They're not completely necessary, no, but I argue we're not always playing ABC. Because there are more players who are wildly sub-optimal at low stakes - whether nitty, passive, loose or maniacal - we want to have this info to hand when we find ourselves in pots with these guys, and an HUD is a reliable method of reminding ourselves and playing accordingly.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
HUD should be seriously considered.
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age old argument.
Ive always posted that you should be able to identify players in small stakes games and recognise lines without the need to look at stats before you need to consider other things in your game.
i have to disagree with any one who says small stakes players need a HUD. |
Been thinking about this a lot, Miffed. First, it may be an age old argument, but this is a beginner's forum. So we may have to argue it again 
Second, I'm a math professor. We've been having arguments about using technology to help learn mathematics since the first slide rule was traded in for a 4-function calculator (that weighed 390 lbs  ). Many people are anti-technology. But research into learning theory shows, basically, that the brain can build better with more tools, both digital and analog. Used properly, technology is HUGE boost to mathematics learning.
Third, using technology does change how and what they learn, and when they learn it. Same lessons, but different order.
Fourth, of course learning poker isn't exactly like learning math, but there are tests, scores and problems to solve, many of which utilize mathematics. I'm good at math, much better at math than poker. (Fortunately I feed my family with math $$, not poker $$.) I work well with ratios, percentages, ranges, EV, factor analysis, conditional probabilities and stats. Given my own native non-poker talents, I feel the HUD allows me to play poker better, more analytically, more mathematically.
Given all of the above, I have a strong preference for a HUD while playing any stakes. I feel I'm learning a lot and playing to my strengths. I also feel strongly that there is rarely just one correct solution to a problem or just one correct way to learn a skill.
Any thoughts from y'all?
BTW, I'm teaching a game theory course next semester (will be 2nd time I've taught the class, but first since I began playing poker), and I would be interested in starting a game theory thread, if anyone's interested. Let me know.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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actually the cbet and fold to cbet numbers could be really useful at any stakes. before i was just commenting about standard vpip/pfr/af numbers.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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