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!Luck
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02-04-2010, 05:54 PM
Post subject: Moving up to 25NL Stats Included
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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10NL was a lot harder than 5NL for me, but it really forced me to learn more about SPR and when to check, when to C bet, rather than this sounds fun. I am also getting better at bet sizing. At 5NL I made tons of .75% pot bets. Now I am all over the place, and it isn't random.
BR: 500.96
Move up to 50NL: Will depend on my winrate. If my winrate is greater than 2.75 Then I move up at 1,000. If it is less. I will move up at 1,100. Further, the winrate will be based on my last 20-25k hands. As it pretty obvious it will take me 40k+ hands to finish that limit.
Move Down: 6 Buyins and I move down.
STATS Comments appreciated:
Thanks for all your help.
!luck
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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be more aggressive IMO
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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25nl FR is teh suck (complete nit-fest). in order to put together a good winrate, you're gonna have to learn to 3b and play aggressively postflop in general. and maybe most importantly, you need to fold.......A LOT! if you have AK on an A75tt flop, and you get raised by a reg in a single raised pot, you're very seldom going to see anything but sets. you certainly won't see worse aces and you'll be amazed how rarely you see draws.
M would obv have more to say on general 25nl FR play, and even your specific stats. if you ever get deathly sick of folding TPTK and overpairs, holla at me in da irc and we can get started on your 6m career 
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mz102489
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: utg
Posts: 76
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I just moved up to 25nl about 3 weeks ago and my experience is/was exactly as surviva suggests...any agession=bad news! im currently experimenting with my 3betting (as my winrate has dropped to more like 2.6bb/100hands from 9bb) 
hopefully you have better luck at 25nl than I have so far.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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glgl
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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youre aggression should jump a 3betting comes into your game more. Just dont think this game will beat 50nl 100nl without more to it. Bu theres no reason solid play like this wont beat 25nl
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Hello 10NL 
Look for an update when my bankroll recovers.
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kdawgy80
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 52
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I made the move from 10 to 25nl FR at FT about six months back and the difference, to me, was pretty big. The odd thing was my experience is actually kind of opposite from the opinions above...
At 10 I played very mechanically and basically destroyed it. To be honest -- not trying to turn into a brag or anything either -- I started my "taking poker seriously" phase at 10 and I had played SnGs for years and had dabbled (donkishly) in higher cash limits so I wasn't coming into it as a total nub or something either... Not saying you are either...
Anyway... as I said I played 10 mechanically and I could just blind steal and pfr + cbet in position, double barrel, to my hearts content all day long and the only time ppl seemed to challenge me on those plays was when they actually had top pair or, you know, some kind of premium opening hand. Even then they were pretty sheepish about it or would just shove out of the blue. I didn't think about 3bet bluffing, I didn't think about blind v blind, not much metagame. It was really just cut and dry vbetting, cbetting and getting out of someone's way when they showed aggression.
That all changed dramatically at 25. All of a sudden people were floating or raising my cbets, occasionally 3bet bluffing my blind steals, bluffing in general (didn't see much if any at 10). But this wasn't happening all the time either. It was more of a shock to actually see it happening and having to adapt and react instead of mechanically working my way through things as I had been doing at 10. All that being said... 25nl is still a nit fest as compared to higher limits. As compared to 10, I remember 25 being way more open at the time. Maybe I'm way off here.
Edit: As for your stats, similar to what I said above. I'd like you to 3bet a wee bit more (start thinking about when to 3bet bluff and why). I'd like to see you open with a wider range of hands in position (although button opening range looks good). I feel like 13/10 is way too nitty. I was at a 22/17. Not that you have to be THAT open, and you can certainly be successful either way, but your MP vp and pfr are almost identical to your EP stats, so at the very least open up a bit more in those spots. Although I do like your opening range from the button I feel like the difference between CO/BTN and EP/MP is way too great. Mix in once in a while a limp or raise from earlier positions with suited connectors or soemthing.
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Thanks for all the replies. Yeah I got crushed really fast, only got 1.1k hands in but had some tough hands, I do not feel the need to discus them here as it would just look like a whine. I will take me quite a bit of time to grind back up. But I am happy I have the discipline to do it.
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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It's interesting how different players have different experiences. I haven't really played $25NL in earnest since the summer, but for FullRing $25NL on Stars, I seem to remember $25NL being one of my favorite levels. Both levels surrounding $25NL @ $10NL and $50NL seemed much more nitty than $25NL. It seemed like players would actually put money in the pot, which was great for my style. I think that has a lot to do with it, too. I don't massively multi-play. At the time, I think I just played 4 tables, so I would always look for the best tables that suited my semi-loose, aggressive style and usually had luck building pots when I wanted. But, different folks, different strokes.
I will say that the jump from $10NL to $25NL can be a tough mental hurdle because of the larger gap in nominal stakes. Most jumps are just a factor of 2 like from $5NL to $25NL, but this jump is a factor of 2.5x, which may not seem like much but it is 25% more of a jump and moving up in stakes is already challenging enough. The first time you face that huge $25 all-in, which is 2.5 buy-ins @ $10NL, it can definitely be intimidating. It's just another reason why bankroll management is so important so that you have plenty of time to make adjustments. Trust me, though, there are plenty of fish @ $25NL.
Good luck.
- Jason
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- Jason
 
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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ya, i found 5nl<25nl<10nl<50nl (from easiest to hardest) at 6max with 25nl definitely being my favorite stake. im sure you will beat it no problem, just have to have a little run good when you make your move up.
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Attempt #2 Starting later today or tomorrow.
Things that have changed. I C-bet more, I am tighter UTG. I won't run bad.
BR:528
Drop down rule of ~6 buyin or about 375 BR as cutoff to grind back up.
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eragotte
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 504
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The key to moving up is just running good for those first hands lol, good luck!
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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SHIP IT. On to 50nl. Giving myself a 6-8 buyin drop rule.
Current BR:1500
BR to move down 1100-1200
BR to move up 3k?-3.5k. I don't really care since it so far away..SO i will worry about it later.
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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Congrats, good luck
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EasyPoker
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 753
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Is this a challenge or something?
I had a cursory look at your post history and it seems like you've been doing this a long time. What's your story?
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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LOL easy poker. I have failed at poker for over a decade. But i decided to listen to what people told me this time. And i am having a little bit of success now...., but it can all go away if i stop learning and trying and applying bankroll management.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Make a blog imo
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Jason
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 883
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Congrats on moving up, but how did you have $528 on 02/08/2010 and then $1500 today? That's close to winning 40 buy-ins @ $25NL across 15 days. That's pretty impressive if you were doing all of that within your bankroll and limits.
I think you should give yourself a full 10 buy-in shot, not 6 to 8. Part of the reason you want that many buy-ins is for variance but the other reason is to give you time to adjust. You may be a legitimate loser for 6 to 8 buy-ins before figuring out some key differences or concepts that put you back on the winning track. Of course if you feel like you're getting completely owned or lack all confidence, you should never play no matter how many buy-ins you have.
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- Jason
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Yeah in total I won 681 @ 25NL (38k hands), but after my first failed shot I grinded back up to 500 @ 10nl. So my last 36k hands were sick add in 75 for year end bonus, and getting my 50 Stellar and math makes more sense. Plus the f40 bonus helped a lot too.
Cliffnotes:Run hot, bonus whore.
!luck
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!Luck
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under a bridge
Posts: 1,367
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Fail in 2.5k hands -5BI. Hi 25NL. I will stop bumping this thread.
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