Originally Posted by Checkways

There was a hand I had at the casino tonight that I've been thinking about. Mostly because after the hand everyone told me I was nuts.

A new guy sits down at the table and starts playing wild. I mean really wild. His first hand: Seat 5 raises preflop 3xBB, wild guy reraises 6xBB, Seat 5 pushes all in for 33XBB, wild guy CALLS. HE CALLS WITH K6s.

The next two hands he goes all in preflop and get no callers. Couple of hands later I reraise him with AKo, check to him when I flop an Ace, and take his stack. He buys in again and goes on a rampage. He had no standard preflop raise, he would just grab a big ass stack of chips and throw it in. Usually about 15-25xBB.

He was no dummy. He was just crazy. And probably rich. I think he was waiting for a seat at a higher stakes table. He was drinking and having a good time.

So anyway, he outdraws and outbluffs the guy next to him and takes about $400 from him in twenty minutes. The guy next to him used to be tight, but he keeps trying to win his money back from this maniac. He can't. Now he's on tilt.

So here's the hand.

Wild guy has around $400 in chips.
Tilt guy has around $200.
I have $520.

Wild guy bets $60 preflop UTG.
Tilt guy raises him to $120 total.

I'm in the small blind and have AKs. I fold.

I'm quite sure that I had the best hand. But I didn't want to call $120. And I knew if I pushed all in Wild Guy would probably call. I knew that regardless of what I flopped, Wild Guy would probably push. To make matters worse, Tilt Guy gets to draw for free. It was late. I was happy with my money. I didn't want to take the chance. Was I a wussy?

For anyone interested:

Tilt Guy had K7o.
Wild Guy had ATo and hit a T on the turn winning the hand. No AK came up. However, I was really surprised to see Wild Guy only CALL the $60 raise from tilt guy rather than put Tilt Guy all-in for the last $80. Wild Guy also checked the flop when he missed. Perhaps he would have folded preflop if I pushed.

Oh by the way, this was really weird and funny. On the turn when Wild Guy hit the T, he checked. Tilt Guy FLIPPED OVER HIS CARDS and showed his King high and THEN went all in. LOL. That was crazy.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

I don't mind the fold. You really don't know what tilt guy has, although you can assume it's a wider range of hands than he usually would raise like that. AK vs. two random hands is not a big edge, especially if one of them is a pocket pair. In this situation I'd prefer to have at least a pocket pair to call with - jacks or better.

vs. their actual holdings you were in a good position (50% to win) but vs. say pocket nines and KQo, you're <40% to win. Which is decent against two players, but still not really the kind of odds you're looking for when going all in.

Originally Posted by iopq

Yeah but that means you are two to three to win, but your pot odds are one to two. How can you NOT call?

Originally Posted by iopq

HMM all-in
you know you have the best of it
if you can't afford to lose it, play at lower limits

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If you think you have the best hand, you have to push. This is an excersise in trusting your reads and something I believe to one of be my final leaks.

If you had no read outside of them being a maniac and tilting, then I don't mind the fold.

-'rilla

Originally Posted by dalecooper

I don't mind the fold. You really don't know what tilt guy has, although you can assume it's a wider range of hands than he usually would raise like that. AK vs. two random hands is not a big edge, especially if one of them is a pocket pair. In this situation I'd prefer to have at least a pocket pair to call with - jacks or better.

vs. their actual holdings you were in a good position (50% to win) but vs. say pocket nines and KQo, you're <40% to win. Which is decent against two players, but still not really the kind of odds you're looking for when going all in.

Originally Posted by dalecooper

Bear in mind, I don't agree with your laydown because of the math per se - mostly because I understand why making thin calls for all your chips in a casino game can be very frustrating. When I play online with a decent roll, I'd call that all day long. But we're not always playing poker strictly to squeeze out every last cent.

Learning odds: here are some good resources.

http://simulator.pokertips.org/simulator.php

This is a good hand simulator for calculating specific hand odds. During my day job I often run a number of simulations to see about different situations, and commit the rough numbers to memory. Like your odds if you have overcards vs. a pair, a pair vs. overcards, a pair vs. a single overcard, a flush & straight draw vs. one pair or two pair... etc. All that stuff is very useful to know.

http://www.homepokergames.com/odds.php

This is a good overview of common odds on situations that happen all the time.

http://www.flopturnriver.com

Heh heh. Check out the strategy sections on this very site, they go over calculating pot odds and all kinds of other stuff.

Originally Posted by iopq

in any case, just bring more money with you next time so that your stack is hopefully ridiculously larger than theirs ANYWAY so you won't be afraid to make the right call