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Poyse
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11-10-2008, 12:33 AM
Post subject: Minimum amount of hands to move up?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
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I guess this is almost a bankroll management question but Does anyone here set a limit on the number of hands they will play at a level before moving up or is it all bankroll dependant? Im sure most times the issue wont come up unless you cash into some big money in a tourney which vaults your bankroll up to new levels.
Im sure this will slow down my ability to move up if the situation ever comes up but it seems like a necessity. I was thinking of my of requiring myself to play 20k hands of winning poker at a level before moving up as a form of bankroll management and roll protection does anyone else have any limits like this or do you just let your roll decide and if so what is the magic number?
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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20k hands seems reasonable. If you are bankrolled for the level above and you feel that you realistically have the skill level and composure to move up then you may be able to move up sooner.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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if you have a GREAT winrate then it's less, if you have a meh winrate it's more
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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go by b.r. not # hands until you get to like 100nl or something.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Exactly.
Don't move up because you are rolled. Go there gradually. Add 1 table of the next limit. Once you get more comfortable, add more.
Often enough a table at a lower limit can even be more profitable. Just play what seems best at the moment. Your bankroll and winrate/hands is something you need to move up securely, not an indicator that you must move up now.
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The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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If you started with $2000 and you play a couple of thousand hands of 50NL and 100NL and find yourself on $10,000 you should probably think about moving up.
Id go by bankroll rather than number of hands, but Id also be prepared to move down again if it didnt work out.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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i think going both by br and # of hands is good
in my experience, i've played with minimum BR management and # of hands. at 2NL i grinded my BR to 75 (15 buyins for 5NL) and played only 10k+ hands. my win rate was 10 ptbb/100 though and i felt that i could handle 5NL. so i took my shot, and my BR is sitting at 100 now 
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
go by b.r. not # hands until you get to like 100nl or something.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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You can set a nitty Bankroll requirement, but big win rates achieve even nitty standards for moving up rather quickly. Let it be bankroll driven. If you're unsure of your readiness level, set a nitty stop-loss move-down limit so you don't destroy 2/3's of your roll before moving down. That way, if the first shot doesn't work out, it's just a couple of weeks and then back up.
My multiple shots at 25nl are well-publicized on FTR. I'm there and winning now. Turns out I'm a bankroll nit, and get VERY weak-tight if I'm under-rolled. I got to $800 this time before taking my shot. Having 30+ BI made my whole game better, more confident and reasonably aggressive. Choose a BR limit that let's you play your game. When you're monies are there, move up and pwn it.
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Poyse
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
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Thanks everyone I hit my self imposed bankroll limit for 25NL today of $750 in a little over 15k hands at 10NL im gonna give 25NL a shot and if I drop to $675 I will roll back down to 10NL i appreciate everyones advice and thanks for the replies
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Poyse
Thanks everyone I hit my self imposed bankroll limit for 25NL today of $750 in a little over 15k hands at 10NL im gonna give 25NL a shot and if I drop to $675 I will roll back down to 10NL i appreciate everyones advice and thanks for the replies
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nice! good luck at the tables
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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do you know how to read? i said 100nl. and yeah, if you have 10k you should at least take a shot at 200nl, you have 50 bi. you will learn faster.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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do you know how to read? i said 100nl. and yeah, if you have 10k you should at least take a shot at 200nl, you have 50 bi. you will learn faster. |
If slevin had $10,000 would you tell him to play 200NL?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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do you know how to read? i said 100nl. and yeah, if you have 10k you should at least take a shot at 200nl, you have 50 bi. you will learn faster. |
If slevin had $10,000 would you tell him to play 200NL? |
did he get it by crushing 25NL, then 50NL then 100NL for 20+ buyins each?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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sup pel, where have you been my whole life
OP, hands don't matter, skill does, I like to tell people when they can identify others leaks and have the proper BR it's time to move on up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by will641
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
just because you have $10,000 doesn't mean you should play 200NL
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do you know how to read? i said 100nl. and yeah, if you have 10k you should at least take a shot at 200nl, you have 50 bi. you will learn faster. |
If slevin had $10,000 would you tell him to play 200NL? |
did he get it by crushing 25NL, then 50NL then 100NL for 20+ buyins each? |
No, his uncle died and left him $10,000
now he wants to know which stake to play
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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can I have $10,000?
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Exactly.
Don't move up because you are rolled. Go there gradually. Add 1 table of the next limit. Once you get more comfortable, add more.
Often enough a table at a lower limit can even be more profitable. Just play what seems best at the moment. Your bankroll and winrate/hands is something you need to move up securely, not an indicator that you must move up now.
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I'm surprised this got over-looked.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Exactly.
Don't move up because you are rolled. Go there gradually. Add 1 table of the next limit. Once you get more comfortable, add more.
Often enough a table at a lower limit can even be more profitable. Just play what seems best at the moment. Your bankroll and winrate/hands is something you need to move up securely, not an indicator that you must move up now.
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I'm surprised this got over-looked. |
Being comfortable playing for what can seem much more money, bigger bets and pots is also an issue. If you're sphincter cranks up tighter than a Zhongwei mountain goat's, you need to rethink what this'll do to your play. I think that's part of the thinking behind Oskar's "add-a-table" suggestion... let's you get acclimated in slightly blended environment.
Can also make u f-k ass crazy trying to do different math for different levels all at the same time, but that could be just me... 
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Oh... and I spent over 200K hands at $10nl so, on this topic, could very well just be full of sh!t......
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Exactly.
Don't move up because you are rolled. Go there gradually. Add 1 table of the next limit. Once you get more comfortable, add more.
Often enough a table at a lower limit can even be more profitable. Just play what seems best at the moment. Your bankroll and winrate/hands is something you need to move up securely, not an indicator that you must move up now.
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I'm surprised this got over-looked. |
... let's you get acclimated in slightly blended environment.
Can also make u f-k ass crazy trying to do different math for different levels all at the same time, but that could be just me... |
I go nuts trying to play two different levels at once. But maybe for someone who's really good at math, it would be different.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Exactly.
Don't move up because you are rolled. Go there gradually. Add 1 table of the next limit. Once you get more comfortable, add more.
Often enough a table at a lower limit can even be more profitable. Just play what seems best at the moment. Your bankroll and winrate/hands is something you need to move up securely, not an indicator that you must move up now.
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I'm surprised this got over-looked. |
... let's you get acclimated in slightly blended environment.
Can also make u f-k ass crazy trying to do different math for different levels all at the same time, but that could be just me... |
I go nuts trying to play two different levels at once. But maybe for someone who's really good at math, it would be different. |
are you mocking me...? 
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Clar17y
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Getting coolered.
Posts: 142
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
I go nuts trying to play two different levels at once. But maybe for someone who's really good at math, it would be different.
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I have the same problem.
I don't think it's that good an idea to mix up your tables as play from different limits is somewhat different. i.e. 2 tables of 50NL and 2 tables of 100NL can be completely different.
I'd just suggest moving up when you feel ready for it. If you think you can crush 25NL then sure move up to 50NL with 20 buyins just make sure to move back down again after you get to ~15 and grind it back.
But when you start at a new limit don't auto jump to 8+ tables because "That's what I used to play at the other limit". Half the amount of tables, maybe even more than half until you've played a decent amount of hands and noticed the difference in the games.
What can you no longer get away with that you could at 25NL? Is the table generally tighter than it was before? Are there more regs? Do you have to value bet thinner? etc etc etc.
Clar
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