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Min raises in 25NL full ring

  
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-11-2006, 10:39 PM     Post subject: Min raises in 25NL full ring #1 (permalink)  
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 I had a lot of min raises on somewhat scary flops against me in 25NL. 3 in a half hour span this morning. At 10 NL this means strength but I'm wondering if at these stakes people use min raises as bluffs?
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Alibi
Old 01-11-2006, 10:46 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I have found that a lot of the time a minraise is a bluff ta 25nl.

If they do it quickly, push over them. A quick minraise is usually a bluff.
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EricE
Old 01-11-2006, 10:51 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I think you will get into trouble generically labeling min raises at a particular stake as either a bluff or a strong bet. Generalized statements have no place in poker.

Personally, a min raise from me means a value raise but you will certainly see it used both ways at 25NL.
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-11-2006, 11:01 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 EricE answered my question, sorry I had to go so I made a quick post. My point was normally at 10NL I never see min raise bluffs.
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Fnord
Old 01-11-2006, 11:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Yeah, usually they want a call.
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Lodogg
Old 01-11-2006, 11:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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This bet also confuses me. It could mean many things, extreme strength, extreme weakness, or trying to see the next card for cheap. At 25NL it is used for all 3. I guess you could reraise to better define what they have. Could be an expensive play though. I love when someone min. bets with 2 pair or set and I have a draw (OESD or flush). This is one of the few times to get really good pot odds and win a big pot. I have recently thought about putting this into my game, but just can't bring myself to do it. If I am betting it is going to take away pot odds from the opponent. I am interested in hearing if other players here use this play.
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Fnord
Old 01-11-2006, 11:18 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Most of my first barrel bet sizes are pretty fixed because Shania likes it that way. She keeps nagging me about information leakage on turn + river bets, but most of my opponents are so horrible I haven't had to worry much about that.
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EricE
Old 01-11-2006, 11:22 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Don’t confuse the min bet ($.25) with the min raise (raising the same amount they just bet).
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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Lodogg
Old 01-11-2006, 11:23 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I with you Fnord. I always bet around 2/3 pot on the flop whether it is 2 pair or a semi-bluff. Good players look for betting patterns. Why give them an edge.
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Fnord
Old 01-11-2006, 11:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodogg
I with you Fnord. I always bet around 2/3 pot on the flop whether it is 2 pair or a semi-bluff. Good players look for betting patterns. Why give them an edge.
I'm about the same with a twist, if I don't have "the initative" I usually just go potty.
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Lukie
Old 01-12-2006, 06:47 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodogg
I with you Fnord. I always bet around 2/3 pot on the flop whether it is 2 pair or a semi-bluff. Good players look for betting patterns. Why give them an edge.
I'm about the same with a twist, if I don't have "the initative" I usually just go potty.
Potting with a set into a PFRer who overvalues TPTK is fun...
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-13-2006, 07:24 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Test 1 (please ignore everything excpet the min raise) :

Game #1214269266 - (blinds $0.10/$0.25) No Limit Texas Hold'em - 2006/01/13-14:01:11.9 (CST) Table "Nevis" (real money) -- Seat 5 is the button Seat 1: __Kismet__ ($23.40 in chips) Seat 2: john1673 ($24.25 in chips) Seat 3: gimme ($19.40 in chips) Seat 4: redgrape ($24.65 in chips) Seat 5: MannyKant ($24.40 in chips) Seat 6: dachunman ($6.35 in chips) Seat 7: mTitan ($13.05 in chips) Seat 8: Leppy152 ($24.70 in chips) Seat 9: Putt_&_Toss ($22.00 in chips) Seat 10: WheelzSAE ($36.10 in chips)
dachunman: Post Small Blind ($0.10)
mTitan : Post Big Blind ($0.25)
Dealing...
Dealt to redgrape [ Tc ]
Dealt to redgrape [ 8c ]
Leppy152: Fold
Putt_&_Toss: Fold
WheelzSAE: Raise ($0.80)
__Kismet__: Fold
john1673: Fold
gimme : Call ($0.80)
redgrape: Raise ($2.80)
MannyKant: Fold
dachunman: Fold
mTitan : Fold
WheelzSAE: Call ($2)
gimme : Call ($2)
*** FLOP *** : [ Jd Jc 2d ]
WheelzSAE: Check
gimme : Check
redgrape: Bet ($4)
WheelzSAE: Raise ($8)
gimme : Fold
redgrape: Raise ($17.85)
WheelzSAE: Fold
WheelzSAE said, "nh"
redgrape: Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $23.55 | Rake: $1.20
Board: [ Jd Jc 2d ]
__Kismet__ didn't bet (folded)
john1673 didn't bet (folded)
gimme lost $2.80 (folded)
redgrape bet $24.65, collected $37.40, net +$12.75 [ Tc 8c ] (a pair of jacks)
MannyKant didn't bet (folded)
dachunman lost $0.10 (folded)
mTitan lost $0.25 (folded)
Leppy152 didn't bet (folded)
Putt_&_Toss didn't bet (folded)
WheelzSAE lost $10.80 (folded)

The guy literally auto-miraised, so i thought i'd give it a shot. Why the hell would you raise trip Jacks on that flop when strength was shown preflop anyway?

I'll try to post more examples as they happen
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EricE
Old 01-13-2006, 07:43 PM #13 (permalink)  
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I fall for that one all the time. You bet out, he minraises saying “do you really have a J or are you jacking me?”, you put in a serious reraise saying “yes, I really have a J”, he folds. NH
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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bigredhoss
Old 01-13-2006, 08:00 PM #14 (permalink)  
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minraise as someone already pointed out is not something you should treat generically, you have to consider the context in which it happens.

for ex. if you hit top pair on a draw-free flop, bet, several people call, last person makes a minraise, he likely has a monster unless he is uber-fishy. people will also minraise draws, etc.

another spot people will sometimes minraise is in a headsup pot with a marginal hand, where the other player raised preflop...for ex. if they have 99 on a Q86 board they will sometimes minraise hoping you are c-betting with AK, looking to get a cheap showdown after the minraise.
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