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neophyte
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07-19-2006, 05:52 AM
Post subject: min bets - argh.
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 22
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What do you do when people min bet into you out of position on the flop when you were the preflop raiser but missed the flop.
Folding always feels super weak, but raising with air all the time just feels like I'm spewing chips.
It especially hurts when people are yet to act behind me, I don't want to inflate the pot size out of position with air!
Should I just not be raising preflop aganist these types of players?
Currently playing 20NL.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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GOD I FEEL YOUR PAIN. SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS.
--sorry for the caps but this irriates me.
Just as neo says, you raise preflop and would at least like the courtesy check so you can Cbet but NOOOOOO some weak ass player hits the min bet into a pot 20 times that size. What, am I going to fold to that bet? Hell no, but why do they do it? why?????? I am trying to hold back the tears, this is the single most ridiculous play I see happen everyday online and it needs to stop! What are they holding, TPBK? MPGK? What can they have that they min bet into a PFR? Please someone who has done this before when you were starting and playing bad explain what you were holding. Someone on this site has made this play before, maybe you can give some insight into the situation.
Thanks guys and sorry Neo to ramble on your post.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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this play is a sign of extreme weakness nearly all the time, so treat it like one.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Wyvver
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 125
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From my experience, most of the time it's a weaker player who fears a big bet from someone else. He wants to see another card so he minbets, hoping this will prevent other people from betting/raising.
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- Don't Panic -
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Just pretend it's not there.
If you were going to check the flop, then just call.
If you were going to cbet, then raise.
If you are getting pot odds to see the turn, then do so.
Remember, your odds to pair and overcard on the turn are 7:1
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yeah, how is this a problem? It's like he checked..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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call if you can win, raise if you're ahead, fold if you have no hope.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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be careful when the third diamond comes up on the turn against these bettors
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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its common for these players to minbet/minbet/bet strong and have whiffed or nearly whiffed.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Raise, everytime you planned on C-betting. He'll either stop or keep donating. When he calls be wary unless you hit. You have position on him but not the rest of them. The raise over a min bet will be respected more than the c-bet. The c-bet is expected a raise is not. How much do you usually c-bet. Make the raise your C-bet anyway. Never call this bet, If you have a draw and someone raises, you lose odds, if no one raises they all have odds to chase.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Raise it if you were going to cbet. If he calls then make a note of it (especially if you get to see what he had).
If he folds then make a note of that too.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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More often than not, it is a sign on weakness. Then there is the occasional tricky player who is trying to induce you to raise so he can re-raise. Just note each of those players so that next time you run into them, you know what a min-bet means.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Absolutely make notes on the individual players who do it. It's one thing if it's a sign of weakened becaus they have third pair; it's another if they have TPNK but still call down your raises to the river.
And, as has been said a thousand times, if there's a flush draw on the flop the villain is usually minbetting because he has it and he's an idiot.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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i personally love people who min bet. i found 1 guy the other night who would min bet when he caught TP on the flop, or if the turn paired him in some way. everytime. not only was he predictable, he was cheap. and he would usually be unable to fold to a raise, which is also good.
if they wont fold, then bet at them with value, and call with draws. if they will fold, then just bet at them.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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knoedel
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 89
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Yeah, they are horrible those minbetters. I also hate preflop minraisers after multiple limpers, as if anyone would limp and than fold to a minbet preflop. I asked myself the same question: Why are they doing it. They probably read that you should raise when in position with agood hand. Both good and bad: as pointed out, the same players are often also calling stations and it difficult to push them out of the pot. So, if you have Air and no draw/no odds to draw for your overs I would fold with one minbetter and one mincaller in front of me. If I am heads up I would always put a big raise in (no matter if I hit the flop), to see where I am at.
In my experience, this is what minbetting means: "I am on a draw (mostly flushdraw) and I want to get there cheap". "I have an underpair, lets see if anyone hit the flop without losing a lot of money" (those poeple will call your unimproved AK down, be aware). "I have a monster, lets see if anyone will go for the ride".
Some of those poeple have no Idea about pot odds, so they can even have TPTK and do this on a drawing board, which is good for you since you can see more cards for cheap. And if you hit, they will call you down.
The bottom line: Minraisers are a awful, but you can utilize their weakness. Jut be aware of minbetters who call down your reraise, sometimes its a monster.
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In order to live you have to be ready to die!
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Kits
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Just pretend it's not there.
If you were going to check the flop, then just call.
If you were going to cbet, then raise.
If you are getting pot odds to see the turn, then do so.
Remember, your odds to pair and overcard on the turn are 7:1
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That's how I treat them too.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by knoedel
Yeah, they are horrible those minbetters. I also hate preflop minraisers after multiple limpers, as if anyone would limp and than fold to a minbet preflop.
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The minraise has its uses. But you're right, it's not getting people out.
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Jut be aware of minbetters who call down your reraise, sometimes its a monster.
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that's one of 'em
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LimpinAintEZ
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice
Posts: 591
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by knoedel
I also hate preflop minraisers after multiple limpers, as if anyone would limp and than fold to a minbet preflop. I asked myself the same question: Why are they doing it.
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i gotta say that i LOVE to min-raise with multiple limpers in the pot already - The exact reason i do is because nobody will fold to a min-raise and all of a sudden i've built a good size pot and if I hit with something weird I will get paid off by stubborn players who overvalue their top pairs -
Min-betting the flop is stupid and if i'm heads up i will raise it up almost 85% of the time, even with air - i think i can remember like 2 times out of several hundred that the guy is slowplaying a monster - even those are easy to spot so you don't need to get involved in a big pot with them - if your in a pot with 3 or 4 players and it's min-bet to you, get out when you got nothing - no reason to bluff into that many players - heads up is different, but if you have 4 people in someone will have something...usually -
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