www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Microstakes 3betting

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

Robb

07-12-2008, 08:17 PM Post subject: Microstakes 3betting

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

For those playing 10nl and lower, we're not 3betting enough. Each month for the last 4, I've 3bet lighter and lighter, picking up on reads and table conditions that will make it profitable. I started 3betting more thanks to guides from Renton, IlikeAces and Sauce123, available in the Beginner's Digest and SS NLHE forum Digest. It's really helped improve my game to open up my 3betting range. Here's my guide to 3betting principles for noobies and beginner's.

Why 3bets work: position, opponent inexperience and a narrow calling range

We most often 3bet from LP, drive out players behind us, and keep that positional advantage all the way through the hand. Villan HAS to have a narrow range if he calls a 3bet. Villains at 10nl where I play fold way too much, call way too much and 4bet way too little when they're 3bet. They almost always make a big preflop mistake when you 3bet them. Postflop, their narrow range and lack of position works against them.

Villain's 3bet calling range

What would you call a 3bet with? Me, I'd consider calling with AQ+, AJs+ and 99 - QQ. Maybe KQs, but not often. Of course, this is read dependent, but it provides a pretty accurate picture of what we might face. There are some important points to notice about your microstakes opponents that make them ripe for 3betting:

1. They nearly always 4bet AA and KK and 4bet AK about half the time. This makes cbetting with something like JJ great on Axx and Kxx flops.

2. They overplay Ax massively, allowing for profitable 3bets with AQ and AJ, even AT in some spots. You'll get called with lots of Axs crap that will be dominated. And a lot of AK will 4 bet. Obviously, when you have AK, 3bets are a must.

3. They fold too often, and don't raise enough. Both increase our 3betting value.

4. They see the objective size of the pot - it's HUGE ZOMG!! - and get week-tight postflop. Since many, many players are weak-tight already, they often call a 3bet and just surrender the pot, afraid of 30bb raise. They fail to realize the size of the raise depends only on the pot. Once we've decided we'd like to bet or raise, the amount is pretty standard. Villains let big bets awe them too much.

5. They rarely adjust when we start 3betting light. They have little or no experience dealing with 3bets. So they spew and spew and give us better and better reads which makes us start 3betting lighter and lighter. What is the best defenses against agro 3bettors? Tighten up when they're still left to act preflop, 3bet them FIRST as often as possible, and look for spots to 4bet them thinner than you would normally. Just one timely 4bet can REALLY shut down a 3bettor at the micros. So I can adjust to 3betting, but I can't count on two fingers the number of times I've seen a microstakes opponent make a GOOD adjustment to my 3betting.

3bets and board texture

Take the following base range as "good" 3bet flat call: TT - QQ, AQ+, AJs+. The interesting thing is that a couple great hands (i.e. AA and KK and, to some extent, AK) are NOT in the typical calling range, but they are in Hero's 3betting range. That leaves villain at a disadvantage EVEN WHEN HE CONNECTS WITH THE FLOP. Also note that the pp's are small part of the range, so almost 2/3's of the time (or more!) we're facing unpaired high cards. So we're counting on the board to scare villain almost 90% of the time.

Examples

Board: 732 - Almost no microstakes villain can call a cbet here, and most of them just check when acting first.

Board: Axx - Kicker battle. When Hero reps AK, his bets are MUCH more believable than the guy who called to get here. I bet every Axx flop regardless of my cards when checked to, and I cbet liberally, here. I've even been known to raise with "air," but that's very read dependent.

Board: Kxx - Oddly, there are almost no K's in villain's calling range, unless he's REALLY loose and would call with lots of KT+ and Kxs hands. If that's the case, we love this guy. If not, we're probably ahead here. Bet like a man. Raise him off of QQ and JJ "feeler bets."

Board: JT7 - Ouch!! This board sucks for us unless we have JJ. If villain is frisky here, he's probably either got QQ for an overpair/backdoor straight or a set. We probably continue with QQ+, but AJ+ we'll probably have to fold. Also, be wary when villain check raises, as he often will with a set. Sometimes, when this board drills villain's range and misses our hand completely, a check behind is best.

Board: 3 flush - I generally ignore the flush possibilities. The 3bet calling range is long on Big Card power and short on Flush Draw combos. But the board also shuts down the action, so checking behind is okay. If I've got the A or K high flush draw, I'm firing away. Be wary of A high flush when doing that with the KHFD, however! Most players give up way too easy when the board 3-flushes, so cbetting wins make up for times we end up betting into a made flush.

Board: AQx - Cbet here a lot, especially with JJ and TT which serve as "blocking" cards that prevent villain from completing a straight draw and cut down on the outs he's counting. Your ace is often good, but you need to note which players call too much with Ax to know if medium aces like AJ might be good here. Also, when villain has KQ or AK, he's still not going to feel great about continuing with the hand, worried he's dominated.

The last two boards show how slight variations in board make a HUGE different when we're playing 3bet pots. Boards with A's and K's give Hero the advantage while J's and T's give the caller an advantage. Q's are a slight advantage to Hero, depending on the other flop cards.

Finally, be VERY wary playing TPTK and 2 pair hands in 3bet pots with lots of broadways hitting the flop. Example: you hold AK and 3bet, get a caller, and the flop comes AKT with two in a suit. You've got to bet, here, obviously, but AQ, AJ, QQ and JJ all have 4 outs to a straight, QQ and JJ have 2 additional outs to a set. TT has you drawing thin already. Yes, the majority of the time, you're way ahead. But there's less maneuvering room up here, especially if villain isn't a deep stack.

Hero's 3bet Range
It may seem odd to you that no discussion of Hero's 3betting range happened until the end. But it helps to know why a 3bet is powerful before we look at what hands to try it with. At 10nl, I'm 3betting:

ALWAYS with JJ+ and AK
OFTEN with 99+, AQ+, AJs+ and KQs
SOMETIMES with AJ+, A9s+ and KQ

I need a read to activate my "sometimes" hands, and usually position, too. I activate my "often" range almost every time I think I can isolate a player I think is weak that I have a decent read on, almost regardless of whether he's weak loose, weak tight, passive or aggressive. Also, "always" doesn't really mean "always" for JJ, which I might call with in raised multiway pots, etc.

This post is long enough, so just go from here and use these ideas to expand your 3betting range. Villain's range is narrow and fixed, so you learn very quickly how to cbet, value bet and lay it down postflop.

Good luck at the tables!!

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

miracleriver

07-12-2008, 10:10 PM Post subject: Re: Microstakes 3betting

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Hero's 3bet Range
At 10nl, I'm 3betting:

ALWAYS with JJ+ and AK
OFTEN with 99+, AQ+, AJs+ and KQs
SOMETIMES with AJ+, A9s+ and KQ

Is this for 6-max and/or FR? If for 6-max, how do you adjust for FR?

Robb

07-12-2008, 11:34 PM Post subject: Re: Microstakes 3betting

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by miracleriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Hero's 3bet Range
At 10nl, I'm 3betting:

ALWAYS with JJ+ and AK
OFTEN with 99+, AQ+, AJs+ and KQs
SOMETIMES with AJ+, A9s+ and KQ

Is this for 6-max and/or FR? If for 6-max, how do you adjust for FR?

I play mainly 6max, but I will still 3bet almost as often at FR as I do at 6max. I play tighter at FR overall, but 3bet in most of the same spots.

3betting is so ++EV that I do it whenever possible, and probably times I shouldn't.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

daven

07-12-2008, 11:48 PM Post subject: Re: Microstakes 3betting

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

nice post Robb.

Notes:

* Sizing of 3-bets is incredibly important. If someone opens with a min-raise, don't make the mistake of simply betting pot and giving good set odds. If villain opens with a normal raise (3-5bb), raising one or two bb less than pot is good.
* it starts to change markedly >150bb deep.
* Maybe it's not worth expanding 3-betting ranges to include the button on normal tables and CO on tight tables? but maybe it is...
* 3-betting from the blinds vs steals is another topic. At 10nl and below, nobody is stealing light, so don't get attached to defending your blinds. I learnt this from experience a few times, most memorably with A7s 200bb deep where flopped top and bottom was no good

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

For those playing 200nl and lower, we're not 3betting enough.

FYP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Villain's 3bet calling range
What would you call a 3bet with? Me, I'd consider calling with AQ+, AJs+ and 99 - QQ.

remember that most opps at micro aren't opening <99. Cold-calls behind when you 3-bet are always pairs, and never have set odds. Take them down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

This post is long enough, so just go from here and use these ideas to expand your 3betting range. Villain's range is narrow and fixed, so you learn very quickly how to cbet, value bet and lay it down postflop.

position is a huge consideration when 3-betting - your 3-bet range from UTG+1 <<< Button.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

Robb

07-13-2008, 12:06 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

daven, all good stuff to add - especially about 3bet sizing. I generally 3bet 3x villain's open raise, but you make an excellent point about min raises.

Position is also vital. I mentioned it, but probably did not emphasize it enough.

Thanks for the assist, daven.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

mrhappy333

07-13-2008, 12:15 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Hartford, CT

Posts: 1,078

like $$ in the bank.
again,as usual, nice post Robb

3 3 3 I'm only half evil.

bjsaust

07-13-2008, 03:56 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

One thing to consider (and I agree with the general thrust of the post), is that sometimes theres more value in calling OOP against a wide range with cards ahead of that range and playing some postflop poker. I'm starting to move towards a fairly polarised 3-bet range and just flatting some of those middle cards and either taking pots away on the flop or letting opp value town/bluff himself into a decent sized losing pot.

Just playing to improve.

Robb

07-13-2008, 03:14 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Thanks, BJ, good advice. What level do you play? I find that at 10nl I have to use this tactic sparingly.

The ability to play passively in the CORRECT spots has been a skill that has taken me a long time to get figured out, mainly because my 10nl game is built on a Tight-SuperAggro style that doesn't check or call much. But I read a couple of Fnords posts where talked about "monkey checked to, monkey bet." I commented and he explained that around 100nl, you can really boost your earnings with this read.

Just in the last two weeks, I've managed to ID a couple reg "monkeys." LoL. OOP, just check your set and call the autobet. Or, with an overpair, raise their bet. Free money. But the spots I find to use this are rare at 10nl, imo. I guess the sites I play on have pretty passive regs, so counting on them to bet or raise is VERY read dependent.

I know the advice is sound, as is all of the advice you give here. Just curious which level(s) you have found this tactic to work out best.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

bjsaust

07-13-2008, 03:44 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Its less level specific and more opponent specific. What I'm usually looking for is your standard tagfish player. They have reasonable stats, relatively high steal %'s, and have read enough poker advice to know they should bet at weakness.

Couple of hands against the same opponent who fit this bill: 15/13/1.6 raising 40% of unopenned pots in the CO and BTN. I think this is in order:

1 http://weaktight.com/274995 - Good spot to just call down and let him value town himself. A standard tag is isolating with a wide range there.

2 http://weaktight.com/274999 - 3 bet to mix it up.

3 http://weaktight.com/274997 - Again he has a wide range here. Probably should have just taken this pot on the flop, but the turn is an obvious spot to take it.

So I start out with letting him value town himself picking up an extra c-bet. Then I 3-bet wider than he would expect after hand 1, then I take a pot away postflop with A high when he's worried about me. If he'd cbet I'd have raised him in hand 3. Whilst we dont see what he had in hand 3 it was obviously pretty weak, so I'd have lost value by 3-betting hands 1 and 3 pre as he'd just fold.

In reality the two I just flatted are probably a little looser than I'd usually mean, but I had fun with this guy, he just wouldnt adjust. I took $8 off him just because he'd keep trying to steal from position even though I kept taking the pots off him.

Just playing to improve.

Robb

07-13-2008, 08:51 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Its less level specific and more opponent specific. What I'm usually looking for is your standard tagfish player...he just wouldnt adjust. I took $8 off him just because he'd keep trying to steal from position even though I kept taking the pots off him.

Nice post - I looked through all the hands.

Don't play against many tagfish at my sties/levels - I look more for lagfish 'cuz there's more of them; but I love it when I get a read on a guy and he just refuses to adjust to my exploitive moves.

vnhs

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

miracleriver

07-13-2008, 10:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

1. They nearly always 4bet AA and KK and 4bet AK about half the time. This makes cbetting with something like JJ great on Axx and Kxx flops.

2. They overplay Ax massively, allowing for profitable 3bets with AQ and AJ, even AT in some spots. You'll get called with lots of Axs crap that will be dominated. And a lot of AK will 4 bet. Obviously, when you have AK, 3bets are a must.

Aren't 1 and 2 contradictory? In 1, JJ is great to cbet on Axx flops since only few hands in his 3-bet calling range hit the flop. But in 2, you imply that Axs are a big part of his 3-bet calling range, and since he takes these too far, JJ would not be great to cbet on Axx flops. What am I misunderstanding?

Robb

07-13-2008, 11:55 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by miracleriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

1. They nearly always 4bet AA and KK and 4bet AK about half the time. This makes cbetting with something like JJ great on Axx and Kxx flops with JJ or TT.

2. They overplay Ax massively, allowing for profitable 3bets with AQ and AJ, even AT in some spots. You'll get called with lots of Axs crap that will be dominated. And a lot of AK will 4 bet. Obviously, when you have AK, 3bets are a must.

Yes, they are. I was wondering who would catch that. 3betting is great since it works against a wide range of villains. But it works differently.

1. Weak-tight. They fold way too much, so we 3bet lighter. When they call, it's with a very narrow range where we can often cbet into Axx and Kxx flops.

2. Loose-passive. They call with too wide a range, often with Axs, scs and other junk. Have to be careful here with cbets, and we try note exactly what they'll call with. Makes flop play very read dependent, but it also (once we have a read) lets us know what types of flops we can bomb, and which we have to be careful with.

3. TAGG. These folks often call with a narrow range, too, preferring to 4bet with premium hands and fold medium-strength ones. Aggressing against aggressive players works well - beat them to the punch. They often fold to aggression when they catch air. So same as #1. If they have hand, count on them to raise. We duck quietly out of the way.

It's helpful to decide what type of villain we're 3betting preflop, to make sure we think it's a good idea. With a good read, we can 3bet the "always" and "often" ranges against all 3 types when we're in position, and 3bet the weak-tights with the "sometimes" range.

Out of position, be careful with all but the weak-tights. Keep to the "always" range, and keep BJ's suggestions above in mind.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

bjsaust

07-13-2008, 11:56 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

I generally table select fairly religiously, but lately I've been working on exploiting the tags for a while rather than immediately leaving if a table turns bad.

Just playing to improve.

Robb

07-13-2008, 11:58 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

I generally table select fairly religiously, but lately I've been working on exploiting the tags for a while rather than immediately leaving if a table turns bad.

Yeah, it seems we're on different parts of the learning/playing curve. I decided about 6 weeks ago I wasn't table selecting hard enough, not ditching bad tables and staying on the loosest, most passive ones. So I'm facing a lot fewer tagfish regs, it would seem.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:20 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Beginners Circle

Microstakes 3betting

Play for FREE and practice your game at...