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Biglines

08-17-2008, 06:59 PM Post subject: Micro hand advice pls

#1 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 108

Hand no. 1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($1.80)
SB ($4.04)
BB ($2.36)
UTG ($5.44)
MP ($4.73)
CO ($4.01)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9

, 9

.
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.11, 1 fold, UTG folds, CO calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.40) 2

, 7

, 5

(3 players)
SB bets $0.1, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.5, SB calls $0.40.

Turn: ($1.40) 4

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero????

Hand no. 2

I should probably have folded this preflop, anway.........

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($2.43)
CO ($5.58)
Button ($2.78)
SB ($5.14)
BB ($1.98)
UTG ($3.79)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4

, A

.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.02, CO raises to $0.04, Button calls $0.04, 1 fold, BB calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02.

Flop: ($0.17) 8

, A

, 4

(4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.1, CO calls $0.10, Button folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($0.37) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.28, CO calls $0.28.

River: ($0.93) K

(2 players)
Hero ??

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wellrounded08

08-17-2008, 08:16 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

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I'm not going to comment on the entirety of your hands, I'll let someone who knows more do that. But where your question marks are at, All I can do is say what I would do If I found myself in that situation, May I be corrected if I'm wrong.
Hand 1: I'd probably check behind(ON THE RIVER, BET THE TURN)
Hand 2: Throw out another value bet, I'm putting him on something like A decent kicker, not a King.

Squeaky_Midget1

08-17-2008, 08:28 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 126

Hand 1: I think a flushdraw/7x/2 overs is such a big part of his range than you should bet this turn...I'd go $1.15-$1.20 and shove any non heart river

Hand 2: VB Anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 pot should be alright

wellrounded08

08-17-2008, 09:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeaky_Midget1

Hand 1: I think a flushdraw/7x/2 overs is such a big part of his range than you should bet this turn...I'd go $1.15-$1.20 and shove any non heart river

EDIT: I'd just have to go pot on the turn because then I'm still getting value, w/o going over board with a only a low over pair that can easily be beat.

At these stakes? The fact is, there's so many passive players that would love for him to do that when they hit a strong hand on the flop. Weak players love to Trap at these stakes. Now your advice on the turn bet probably takes away alot of draws(not all at these stakes) and if that's the case maybe the river shove is fine,
UNLESS
Villain has hit trips, two pair, has TT JJ(Yes two pair, at these levels it's certainly possible). And since villain checked the river I'd have to do the same. The fact is, if they were on the draw, they didn't hit it, so your not going to get any more value out of them. And any villain at this level isn't going to lay down two pair or trips here. I dunno, maybe I'm way off.(I'f I am TELL ME.) I'm just observing.

Erpel

08-17-2008, 09:08 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

Hand 1: Good, now shove. He's on a flush draw most of the time. (Shove because you only have $1.18 behind and that's the size you want to bet anyway)
Hand 2: Keep value betting. With a K on the river someone might be sitting on K8 or K7 and think they're best. Time to make them pay

bigstock2001

08-17-2008, 09:12 PM

#6 (permalink)

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I am fairly new to the online seen but I would have to go with what well rounded had said. I would have played it fairly similar.
don

Squeaky_Midget1

08-17-2008, 09:15 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 126

No reads on either opponent makes it difficult
Without reads saying he's abnormally passive pre, I would automatically discount JJ+ in the first hand with the limp/call
And I dont think a set makes up enough of his range to see the river for free
If he bricks the river then hes not paying you off, so imo get as much value out of draws while you can
If he was trapping with a set or 2 pair i think he'd pull a c/r

wellrounded08

08-17-2008, 09:27 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeaky_Midget1

That's kinda what sux about 2NL, unless you've been playing with someone for a while, or had previous sessions with them, you can't discount anything. you can't discount limp/calling AA on the button, you know what I"m saying? And I still wouldn't discount the trips, that's just me.

A c/r is very possible, especially on the turn, but not deffinate. If they think you'll three barrel then they might not.

I aggree about getting value out of a draw, however, unless I know that villain will call anything with a draw, I would just pot it, making it +EV for you (assuming you continue making such decisions). And if they hit it, maybe you can call a small bet on the river or fold to a massive bet.

Squeaky_Midget1

08-17-2008, 09:46 PM

#9 (permalink)

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That might be where we differ, I hate being put up to a hero call on the river whether it's big or small

Like I said with no reads I'm averaging a normal 2NL donk's range here:
imo JJ+ I think would get too excited and blow their wad before the turn, so I didnt include them
3/4 of it we're crushing
So even if he did slowplay us it's not worth checking behind

Opp's range i dont want to see a free river card with:
flush draw/34/A7/K7/78/89/over cards he floated

Opp's range that beats us:
22/55/77/45/75/1010/A3

Which is why I think checking behind on the turn is the worst play

Erpel

08-17-2008, 09:52 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 605

Go easy on the stuttering.

In hand 1 we have $1.18 behind and the pot is $1.40.

Squeaky_Midget1

08-17-2008, 09:56 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jun 2008

Posts: 126

didn't see that...yea just shove the turn in hand 1

wellrounded08

08-17-2008, 09:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeaky_Midget1

would get too excited and blow their wad before the turn

LOL that's funny,(your right there.)

Which is why I think checking behind on the turn is the worst play

I wasn' t saying check the turn, or at least I didn't mean to say that, I mean the river. My position is to pot the turn check the river.

Fnord

08-17-2008, 11:08 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: Bet turn! I may or may not bet the river. Checking the turn behind here is a play against more aggressive opponents who will stab the river and fold worse one pair hands. Against a micro opponent neither applies and he won't call with missed draws on the river.
Hand 2: Raise Pre-flop!!! Bet lots of money, try to get it all in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bigspenda73

08-17-2008, 11:13 PM

#14 (permalink)

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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

at 2nl you should be jamming the river in hand 2.

Fnord

08-17-2008, 11:17 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

at 2nl you should be jamming the river in hand 2.

Should have bet closer to the pot on the flop + turn to make a turn shove less awkward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bigspenda73

08-18-2008, 12:48 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

at 2nl you should be jamming the river in hand 2.

Should have bet closer to the pot on the flop + turn to make a turn shove less awkward.

Well yes, but shove is still fine even with these stack sizes.

Biglines

08-18-2008, 05:53 AM

#17 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2008

Posts: 108

Thanks for the responses. Good to hear that you advice is consistent with what I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erpel

Shoved in both hands

Quote:

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

At these stakes? The fact is, there's so many passive players that would love for him to do that when they hit a strong hand on the flop. Weak players love to Trap at these stakes.

This pretty much sums it up. Both these hands were against the same villain within about 5 mins of sitting down at the table. Didnt have a real read on him (although should have after hand 1)

In hand 1 he had A30 which I just couldnt put him on with the size of my flop raise.

In hand 2 he had AK0. Put him on an A, but just couldnt see anyone playing AK so weakly.

Is there anyway to avoid situations like these (without any reads) at micro levels? Because I bet fairly aggressively (reraise any decent hand, cbet any hand I raised pre, and often bet with air on the turn after cbetting and getting called) I tend to do the work for the passive players if they actually have something. At the same time Im making more off them stealing and beating them with better hands than I lose in situations like these.

I also try to develop reads as much as possible on my opp. I take notes on any hand that goes to showdown on tables that Im sitting at. This does help avoiding situations like these.

Fnord

08-18-2008, 06:06 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Getting stacked happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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