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Me and the Second Best Hand

  
 
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LeFou
Old 09-15-2004, 01:52 PM     Post subject: Me and the Second Best Hand #1 (permalink)  
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this is probably a big hole in my game; I'll explain it as best I can and appreciate any comments.

I (e.g.) raise from late with AcKs -- this level III of a freeroll multi

The flop has a pair of 8s, two spades and a club, but no real help. It checks around (3 people)

The turn is a K, so I feel like I'm in decent shape. I bet and get called by both.

The river is a spade. Now:

Of course I'm not in decent shape anymore. But I've been waiting for something playable for about 3 rounds. I play tight and aggressive -- sorry to Fnord and everyone who plays marginal hands and wins.

The play most people make with a four-flush on the flop is to bet it big. So I'm halfway ruling that out. I'm halfway ruling out the eight as well, since an eight would've EITHER bet the flop or raised me on the turn.

Having halfway ruled out the hands that can beat me, I call because the pot is rather large now. This is not a bad beat story. It's a me-making-a-bad-play story. Should I just assume someone's got the best hand if I've got the second best?

History:
ANTES/BLINDS
wcda posts blind ($25), super28 posts blind ($50).

PRE-FLOP
shoetech folds, str8 flush40 folds, donn1234 calls $50, NuWere bets $100, bigdadyjohnx folds, davefla folds, nineballqn folds, OHIOFRED folds, wcda folds, super28 calls $50, donn1234 calls $50.

FLOP [board cards 8S,JS,8C ]
super28 checks, donn1234 checks, NuWere checks.

TURN [board cards 8S,JS,8C,KD ]
super28 checks, donn1234 checks, NuWere bets $100, super28 calls $100, donn1234 calls $100.

RIVER [board cards 8S,JS,8C,KD,9S ]
super28 checks, donn1234 bets $325 and is all-in, NuWere calls $325, super28 folds.

SHOWDOWN
donn1234 shows [ 7S,AS ]
NuWere shows [ KS,AC ]
donn1234 wins $1,275.
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Humphrind
Old 09-15-2004, 02:25 PM     Post subject: Re: Me and the Second Best Hand #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
I (e.g.) raise from late with AcKs -- this level III of a freeroll multi
No problems here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
I've been waiting for something playable for about 3 rounds.
Are you saying that you played this hand because you hadn't been able to play a hand in a while? This is no reason to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
The play most people make with a four-flush on the flop is to bet it big. So I'm halfway ruling that out. I'm halfway ruling out the eight as well, since an eight would've EITHER bet the flop or raised me on the turn.
Well, I can halfway rule out the 8, but there are a ton of people who wait for a made flush before betting. If you play games where people take away their own odds on draws, don't let that spoil you to believe that everyone does that.

Most people on draws become calling stations until their draw hits.

The only reason I can halfway rule out the 8 is because someone with a J8, or K8 will probably choose to slow play this. Especially with a draw heavy board. He will check call to the river, then when the board completes a draw, he will bet it out. Sounds like what donn did. But donn didn't have the full house. He had the flush. He played it the same for the opposite reason.

Here's what to do:
Pre-flop. Bet more. AK is strongest when it is head to head. You don't want 3-6 callers, you want 1. Raise / re-raise and give others the decisions.

Flop. You are in late position, if you are truely tight /aggressive you would put a raise in here. Either scare out a few of those people or get re-raised to find out where you stand in the hand.

Turn. If you are sure that you have the best hand (after checks on the flop and turn) now is the time to bet and bet big. 2X BB isn't going to do it. Every bet you make should give your opponent a very difficult decision.

River. Calling and all in and going all in are 2 different things. Why did the other player go all in? They are very confident about something.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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LeFou
Old 09-15-2004, 05:05 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I think I took your advice. Here's my next AK play. And again with a pair in the flop.

Blinds are 15-30 How do you like the 3 callers to an 8BB PF raise? One of them with Q6 off. That's play money for you.

PRE-FLOP
NuWere bets $100, gldndixiedol calls $100, dsccr1157 calls $100, Brent44 folds, BigCawk calls $90, Lfin12 calls $80.

FLOP [board cards 6C,3D,3C ]
BigCawk checks, Lfin12 checks, NuWere bets $200, gldndixiedol calls $200, dsccr1157 folds, BigCawk folds, Lfin12 calls $200.

TURN [board cards 6C,3D,3C,2H ]
Lfin12 checks, NuWere checks, gldndixiedol checks.

RIVER [board cards 6C,3D,3C,2H,3H ]
Lfin12 checks, NuWere checks, gldndixiedol bets $225, Lfin12 calls $225, NuWere folds.

SHOWDOWN
gldndixiedol shows [ 6D,QC ]
Lfin12 mucks cards [ 5H,JH ]
gldndixiedol wins $1,550.
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LeFou
Old 09-15-2004, 05:05 PM #4 (permalink)  
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PS: I know play money hands are pretty much worthless for analysis. Just making chitchat here.
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dpcjsr
Old 09-15-2004, 05:53 PM #5 (permalink)  

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With decent pot odds, three players, and passive betting I would bet out on the flop. The 88 and 2 flush draw make for a dangerous flop but no one is betting. My bet would represent my hitting it. If someone decides to play then I have gained a lot of information and would play accordingly.
This above all, to thine own self be true,
And it must follow as the night the day
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
- William Shakespeare, Hamlet Prince of Denmark (Polonius at I, iii)
 
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allLiving
Old 09-15-2004, 11:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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With a check/call on the turn with a flop like that I get scared of trips and flush chasers.. Check/fold on the river.

PocketFives - allLiving
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