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Ash256
Old 10-26-2008, 08:16 PM     Post subject: Is it me running bad . . #1 (permalink)  
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 Or do stars 25NL and 50NL players rarely, if ever bluff?
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:26 PM #2 (permalink)  
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They bluff sometimes
5% would be a close figure to the truth, but it depends on the circumstances
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swiggidy
Old 10-27-2008, 01:04 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 it depends
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Fnord
Old 10-27-2008, 01:37 AM     Post subject: Re: Is it me running bad . . #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
Or do stars 25NL and 50NL players rarely, if ever bluff?
Full Ring, 6 max or HU?
How do they play and how many tables?
What do they think of you? Do they feel they need to make a stand against you? Would they even notice?
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donkbee
Old 10-27-2008, 03:13 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Yes they bluff. At 50NL 6-max, at least.



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Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
 
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kmind
Old 10-27-2008, 05:04 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 they 3bet out of the blinds wayyyyyyyy too much and fold to 3bets wayyyyyy too much if that means anything. At least the regs if that's what you mean. But from my experience the answer is NO besides the preflop stuff. Obv. the cbetting / raising and repping absolutely nothing stuff too.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-27-2008, 05:09 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I think they don't 3bet nearly enough and they either fold way too much to 3bet or like almost never.

They rarely bluff for stacks, perhaps cheap 1 street bluffs but I've never run into anything too crazy.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:20 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I think they don't 3bet nearly enough and they either fold way too much to 3bet or like almost never.

They rarely bluff for stacks, perhaps cheap 1 street bluffs but I've never run into anything too crazy.
Obviously you haven't run into me yet
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GatorJH
Old 10-27-2008, 01:52 PM #9 (permalink)  
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agree with Spenda here. Most bluffs at 50NL 6 max (and is probably true in other games) is that a majority of the bluffing happens either pre-flop or on the flop.

If you run into someone that will bluff 3 streets make sure you make a note of it.
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raidbett
Old 10-28-2008, 06:43 AM #10 (permalink)  

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bluff less as possible
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Robb
Old 10-28-2008, 04:40 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Dunno about 50nl, but every time I start pwn'ing myself at 25nl and 10nl, it's 'cuz I make too many of the "I think you're bluffing" river calls and they show down the immortal nuts.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
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al yell
Old 10-28-2008, 04:48 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Dunno about 50nl, but every time I start pwn'ing myself at 25nl and 10nl, it's 'cuz I make too many of the "I think you're bluffing" river calls and they show down the immortal nuts.
+1 but at 50nl. Was one of my biggest leaks for quite some time. Countering it required consciously and systematically putting opponent on ranges, etc.
When Push Comes To Shove
 
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-28-2008, 05:02 PM #13 (permalink)  
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this is probably pure spew... but i think this guy was a regular judging by his stats... 16/12/2.5. i knew he wouldn't call with JJ or 99... and probably woulda bet out with TT (the flopped boat), cuz he was probably putting me on AA KK QQ or AK and maybe AQ (preflop). so if he flopped the boat he woulda played it stronger trying to stack me if i had AA KK or AQ. my turn bet looked either weakish or like a trap... when he bet out weak i just had a feeling he'd fold JJ.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($25)
SB ($23.50)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($19.85)
MP ($34.80)
Hero (CO) ($30.95)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, A
1 fold, MP raises to $1, Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, MP calls $2.50

Flop: ($7.35) Q, Q, 10 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($7.35) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $3.75, MP calls $3.75

River: ($14.85) 8 (2 players)
MP bets $3.75, Hero raises to $23.70 (All-In), 1 fold

Total pot: $22.35 | Rake: $1.05
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-28-2008, 05:13 PM #14 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($22.30)
SB ($35.45)
BB ($33.20)
Hero (UTG) ($60.15)
MP ($25.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, Q
Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold

Flop: ($3.25) 8, 9, 10 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.50, 1 fold, SB calls $2.50

Turn: ($8.25) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($8.25) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero calls $4

Total pot: $16.25 | Rake: $0.75

he had A7
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-28-2008, 05:16 PM #15 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($38.80)
Button ($15.05)
SB ($31.95)
BB ($26.30)
UTG ($22.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q, K
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.25, 3 folds, UTG calls $1

Flop: ($2.85) 9, 4, 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.50, UTG calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.85) 6 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.85) 3 (2 players)
UTG bets $3.50, Hero calls $3.50

Total pot: $12.85 | Rake: $0.60

Results in white below:
UTG had J, K (high card, King).
Hero had Q, K (high card, King).
Outcome: Hero won $12.25
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-28-2008, 05:18 PM #16 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($34.10)
UTG ($21.55)
Button ($26.45)
SB ($28.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 4
2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.50) K, J, 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.50) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.50) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.25, SB raises to $6, Hero calls $3.75

Total pot: $12.50 | Rake: $0.60

Results in white below:
SB had Q, 6 (one pair, fours).
Hero had 3, 4 (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Hero won $11.90
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bigspenda73
Old 10-29-2008, 11:31 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 I know this is a 6max discussion but I just played 600 hands of 25nl FR for a video and they ALWAYS have it, I cannot believe how mediocre of a hand JJ is against a typical 3betting range even from late position.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:15 PM #18 (permalink)  
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ya rly
I fold AQ OOP to a 3b in NL25 FR
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kmind
Old 10-29-2008, 01:00 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 I fold AQ OOP to a 3b in 6max most of the time
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Robb
Old 10-29-2008, 04:06 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I know this is a 6max discussion but I just played 600 hands of 25nl FR for a video and they ALWAYS have it, I cannot believe how mediocre of a hand JJ is against a typical 3betting range even from late position.
I lost a TON w/ JJ last night, spenda. It's funny you'd mention that. Kmind, I also tend to fold AQo / AQs to a 3bet oop. It's hard to play it profitably IN position for 100bb effective stacks after flatting a 3bet.
My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against
 
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-29-2008, 05:13 PM #21 (permalink)  
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AQ/JJ is a fold to a 3 bet shove for sure at 25NL. but depending on the player... and your image. if they are 3 betting from the blinds its AK alot. so seeing a flop and calling a cbet is good with TT, JJ, QQ. or even a 4bet is good depending on the player. lately, i've been playing 22/18/3. so i tend to get 3bet a bit more often i think. a 4bet sometimes tell them "i have it this time". but depending on the player... I fold AK, JJ, QQ, to a 4bet or 5bet shove. this sounds crazy but, and i've said this before, depending on the player, a good case can be made to folding KK to a 4 or 5bet shove. especially when the guy is 16/12/2 or tighter and more passive.

also... my 3bet range is huge in position cuz people at 25NL respect it way to much.

ex. utg+1 raises to $1, i reraise to 3.50. utg+1 folds or checks the flop and i bet $4 and they fold. if they shove i fold unless i have it.
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-29-2008, 05:30 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Dunno about 50nl, but every time I start pwn'ing myself at 25nl and 10nl, it's 'cuz I make too many of the "I think you're bluffing" river calls and they show down the immortal nuts.
despite my posts in this thread, i do agree... bet river bets are a fold at 25NL unless you have a set with no str/flush possible... or you have the nut straight or flush.
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Stacks
Old 10-29-2008, 05:50 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 I have began either 4betting or folding a high % of the time when I get 3b, whether in position or oop. Flatting 3bets oop makes it incredibly hard to play, and generally makes your hand transparent. It's a little less transparent when in position.
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CorbinDallas
Old 10-29-2008, 06:05 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorbinDallas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Dunno about 50nl, but every time I start pwn'ing myself at 25nl and 10nl, it's 'cuz I make too many of the "I think you're bluffing" river calls and they show down the immortal nuts.
despite my posts in this thread, i do agree... big river bets are a fold at 25NL unless you have a set with no str/flush possible... or you have the nut straight or flush.
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bigspenda73
Old 10-29-2008, 09:56 PM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
I lost a TON w/ JJ last night, spenda.
here were the JJ hands I played, only one looking back I hate was the min4bet once the nit IP flatted me, then I was getting like 3.6:1 and had to call it off.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP3) ($26.35)
CO ($4.40)
Button ($20.35)
SB ($33.45)
BB ($65.75)
UTG ($5.80)
UTG+1 ($25)
MP1 ($25)
MP2 ($6.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, J
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, 1 fold, Button calls $1.25, 2 folds, UTG raises to $5.80 (All-In), Hero raises to $10.35, Button raises to $20.35 (All-In), Hero calls $10

Flop: ($46.85) Q, 8, Q (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($46.85) 3 (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($46.85) 2 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $46.85 | Rake: $2.30

Results in white below:
Button had A, A (two pair, Aces and Queens).
UTG mucked K, K (two pair, Kings and Queens).
Hero had J, J (two pair, Queens and Jacks).
Outcome: Button won $44.55

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($27)
MP2 ($9.35)
Hero (CO) ($28.15)
Button ($17.85)
SB ($9.20)
BB ($24.05)
UTG ($20.20)
UTG+1 ($24.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, J
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, SB raises to $9.20 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $8.45

Flop: ($18.65) 5, A, 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($18.65) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($18.65) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $18.65 | Rake: $0.90

Results in white below:
SB had K, K (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Hero had J, J (full house, Jacks over Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $17.75

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($26.25)
SB ($24)
Hero (BB) ($36.70)
UTG ($15.60)
UTG+1 ($4.65)
MP1 ($15.20)
MP2 ($23.15)
CO ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button raises to $1.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4.75, 1 fold, Button raises to $10, 1 fold

Total pot: $9.85 | Rake: $0

Results in white below:
Button didn't show
Outcome: Button won $9.85
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