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Cocco_Bill

12-14-2004, 10:00 PM Post subject: This may not seem like much..

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

but I think this subtle little trick has earned me a lot of money.

Whenever I flop a nut hand or close to it I like to slow play. When it gets to the river after calling all bets I like to wait..wait..wait and when the buzzer sounds I will go all in. Yes, maybe your opponent(s) will fold, but surprisingly often it gets called, so I am convinced this is profitable play compared to just making a moderate raise in the long run.

If I make the all in immidiately this doensn't seem to work nearly as often..

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a500lbgorilla

12-14-2004, 10:03 PM

#2 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

I give every hand a momments deliberation and never act immediatly. I doubt that the waiting will help you get called more. Some hand histories would help AND also.. don't slow play, it'll kill you.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Cocco_Bill

12-14-2004, 10:10 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I will slow play any hand which is very likely to be the best all the way to the river especially if the game has many aggressive players in it(these are the tables I pick). I won't slow play top pair or high pocket pairs at all and wont slow play pocket pairs which hit the set if the flop looks dangerous.

Cocco_Bill

12-14-2004, 10:24 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

Then again if I hit top pair, make a bet, get called and then hit second pair on the turn I will often just check to show weakness against agressive players. Often they will respond with a big bet resulting in a bigger pot size. Against passive players I will have to gradually raise the pot myself to win as much as possible.

BTW: In the last 2 days I played 1000+ hands on the .5-1.0 NL tables, won 86% of my showdowns and made 540$ profits. So I doubt slow playing is killing me..

Bite

12-14-2004, 11:55 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

I doubt slowplaying is right very often but if you really succeed in picking the craziest maniacs on the net then it could work out fine sometimes. I like to get the money in while I'm still the favourite though. And your winnings on the last 1000 hands unfortunately doesn't say anything. It's a good result but nothing unusual at all at such a small sample of hands.

dalecooper

12-15-2004, 01:33 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I will slowplay a boat or better - that's about it. Maybe the nut flush if there's no board pair. But I've been burned too many times by leaving people in who had draws to hands better than my set, straight, whatever.

Bite

12-15-2004, 01:36 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 113

I would slowplay a boat or better against a maniac. Against the average guy who calls too much and bets too little I would value bet it all the way. The pots has to be built.

Cocco_Bill

12-15-2004, 01:48 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bite

And your winnings on the last 1000 hands unfortunately doesn't say anything. It's a good result but nothing unusual at all at such a small sample of hands.

Thats true, I actually broke even the 3 days before that. However, I think having earned about 3000$ in my first month of online poker does mean something.

dalecooper

12-15-2004, 02:13 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bite

I would slowplay a boat or better against a maniac. Against the average guy who calls too much and bets too little I would value bet it all the way. The pots has to be built.

Oh, naturally. You have to know your opponents. Aggressive players will bet for you; calling stations have to be worked.

TDM100

12-15-2004, 02:36 PM Post subject: Re: This may not seem like much..

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill

but I think this subtle little trick has earned me a lot of money.

I do this constantly!
Initially derived from Internet play.
I have expanded it to include live games as well.
With the explosion of poker these last couple of years and they all thinking they gonna be the next Moneymaker, I began doing it out of necessity.
For me, the Check is a weapon just as betting or reraising is.
Hell I’ll Call, holding the NUT, fine with me!

I’m new here in this forum, first poker forum I have ever experienced, let alone read.
I am thoroughly convinced after reading some of these histories, I won’t be changing this strategy anytime soon!
It’s amazing to me how players will admit they don’t have a read and have no idea what the other players are holding AND STLL BE THE AGGRESSOR!
Phenomenal!
With flops with damn near the whole table is involved!
“Well since he didn’t reraise me I must have the best hand”
“Let me bet higher on the turn then”
Incredible!
I have read somewhere in here just today, “When you got the two pair, especially low two pair, LET IT FLING”
I paraphrase
lol
I am not joking, I really did see it.

More hands are recorded in here that start off something between call blind and 2Xblind and then end up ALL IN or close to it.
And more times than not, the aggressor gets burnt.
Then have the audacity to ask why.

Another slant on that strategy of yours that I at times utilize, Bet high pre-flop, and then play weak.
That encourages players to chase the dandiest things!
A check screws ‘em up on the flop man.
Call on the turn, OMG!
Well they certainly got to push me out on the river then!
That will show me!
lol
And if I played it a different way, I wouldn’t have gotten all their chips.

Another example from in here,
Guy has QQ, completely ignoring the formalities of Hold’em, if it wasn’t denoted by his play, he wrote along in his description admitting to it, completely screws up the hand.
Asks for help and critique, once he receives it, claims to have posted it only to provide an example of how he played TILT!
LOL

Another one,
Guy has mid pair, bets strong PF, RAINBOW Flop no paint, and he hits, Boom, he strikes again,,,AND GETS CALLED.
Turn, he does it again BOOM. Just gets called.
Still no paint showing.
Strong enough betting you know the kid aint playing for a straight or flush!
He loses the hand with no paint showing, and asks how can you tell if somebody hits better Trips.
AND WAS PISSED AT THE GUY FOR NOT RERAISING HIM WITH IT!
LOL
What’s more alarming, if that wasn’t alarming enough, all the replies currently recommend he did the RIGHT THING and there was NO WAY OF TELLIN IF THEY GOT YOU BEAT OR NOT!
So go do it again!
Lovely!

All this publicity has simply diluted poker IMO!
Slow-playing to the level and the amount of it I do now would have killed ya years gone by.
I am allowed to get away it because,
Too many fail to know how to play the game and think they do.
I am not going to argue with ‘em.
It’s akin to the Stock Market Tech Bubble.
I shorted the hell out of that thing.
I didn’t argue with ‘em.
“It’s a paradigm shift”
Oh well!

Bite

12-15-2004, 05:36 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 113

TDM100: Nice to hear you are doing well. I still consider slowplaying to be a weak play in most cases. Still people seems to be using it almost routinely as fast as they flop a hand that's better than average. I even had guys who let me see the flop turn and river for free and then bets hard with a pocket pair of aces once I bought my nut flush/straight on the river. I thank the WPT for this. Not only that. I can't count the number of times someone gave me huge implied odds to draw out on them once they flopped two pair or even a set. They usually pay off as well since "they have such a monsterhand!!!!". Slow playing might be good under some given circumstances but most cases of slowplaying I see is really crappy play.

FlyingSaucy

12-15-2004, 05:37 PM Post subject: Re: This may not seem like much..

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDM100

Another one,
Guy has mid pair, bets strong PF, RAINBOW Flop no paint, and he hits, Boom, he strikes again,,,AND GETS CALLED.
Turn, he does it again BOOM. Just gets called.
Still no paint showing.
Strong enough betting you know the kid aint playing for a straight or flush!
He loses the hand with no paint showing, and asks how can you tell if somebody hits better Trips.
AND WAS PISSED AT THE GUY FOR NOT RERAISING HIM WITH IT!
LOL
What’s more alarming, if that wasn’t alarming enough, all the replies currently recommend he did the RIGHT THING and there was NO WAY OF TELLIN IF THEY GOT YOU BEAT OR NOT!
So go do it again!
Lovely!

Here is an exact situation you described, posted today. I'm not sure if this is what you are referring to, but it certainly is the same situation. Everyone says "played well" except me.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...978&highlight=

Also, TDM, you've got style. 8-)

Bite

12-15-2004, 05:44 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 113

Also, many slowplayed pots ends up in really tiny pots since the opponent realizes he's beeing played and knows his top two aint no good. He's got no wish paying off on the river when the pot is only a couple of dimes. If he gets raised on the flop his two pair usually looks a lot better since he can improve to a boat. On the turn he might fold but hope is the last thing to abandon a crappy player, on the river he's commited. I don't say that there is never good to slowplay just that most times it's not right.

TylerK

12-15-2004, 05:59 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

TDM100 is going to be posting "I tried to slowplay and got sucked out on at the river" stories soon, I can see it coming.

Edit: Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDM100

I’m new here in this forum, first poker forum I have ever experienced, let alone read.

Maybe you should give a shot on the forums at www.twoplustwo.com. I think they encourage acting like a douchebag over there.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

FlyingSaucy

12-15-2004, 06:02 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Watching the kids

Posts: 1,603

Bite you make really good points. I agree that most newer players slow play way too much. I only tend to slow play if I flopped a monster on a scary board, and want to do whatever it takes to keep people in the pot. (say for example AK on a flop of AKK.)

However I believe there are situations where slow playing even something as weak as two pair is the correct move. Say, heads up with really high blinds in a SnG. You are holding T5 on the button. SB completes, you check. Flop comes KT5. I've won many SnG's in a situation like this where SB has made top pair and moves all in on the turn because I just called his min bet on the flop.

In ring games or early in STT's, it is also not clear cut, but typically I think a good rule of thumb is to only slow play boats or better. Or possibly a flopped nut flush if there is no danger (ie, people are betting weak).

Cocco_Bill

12-15-2004, 06:10 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 1,254

yes, slow playing is the incorrect thing to do in the vast majority of hands, but any good poker player should recognise situations/opponents when slow playing is the best play. It should be a part of your repetoir.

Numegil

01-01-2005, 03:40 AM Post subject: Slowplay

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1

I would slowplay once in a while, and would vary my play

AllinLife

01-01-2005, 05:36 AM

#18 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 530

this thread sucks

"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen

Aceofone

01-01-2005, 11:01 AM

#19 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Posts: 497

TDM makes a point that there are many posts when the aggressor gets slammed by someone slowplaying.

Thats because we dont post all our hands where our aggression paid off.

People post beats because they're upset, they dont post saying "Look, my AA won the last 8/10 pots."

Never, ever make the mistake of creating a demographic, or standard based on the hand histories we post here.

It is correct to be highly aggressive, it is very profitable, but on the boards, we don't see that.

01-06-2005, 02:26 AM

#20 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

It depends on the opponent
Against some opponents I'd like to slow play a set on the flop because I know they are very likely to judge that I don't have it if I check
If there is a draw, of course you bet
but if there is no straight or flush draw and you flopped a set you can definitely slow play, although fast playing might get you more money if you've been playing aggressively

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