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davis9786
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02-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Post subject: Making reads on opponents
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2
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I know this is key for all levels and forms of poker but its just kind of hard to develop reads in sngs and mtts online with multiple games going on at the same time and such, I was just wondering for some tips and categories to label people and what each category means as far as what someone is likely and not likely to do. Any help would be appreciated.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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try playing 1 table at a time. Play enough at given stakes/games/sites to have a general notion of what a typical player does. Take notes when someone does something "out of the ordinary".
but you need to reverse your question: Don't try to put people in categories and try to figure out what those categories do. Try to figure out what people are DOING, and use their actions to to put them in categories. It's self defining. I.e,. someone who doesn't bet or raise alot is "passive". But you don't know that they are passive until you OBSERVE them "not raising". Once you have made the observation - you can predict their future behavior.
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OarChambo
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bowling Green, OHIO
Posts: 22
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I have found that observing player behavior is a very good way to pick up on what they're doing, whether in a live game or online. However, it is entirely too difficult to play multiple tables and accurately pick up on your competitor's behavior. If you really want an edge at online poker in regards to observing other player behavior, you must limit yourself to one table, IMO.
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"I don't gamble, I invest."
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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its possible to observe players on multiple tables.
you need a "system" of who you observe for a certain period, say ten minutes. start with the players to your immediate left, b/c they affect your game the most, then go on with the next player to his left and so on. if you use a HUD, you only have to look for obvious lines, players potting bluffs but 2/3ing locks or something like that. at lower stakes you dont even need to make notes or reads on each players, since there are always some unimaginative ABC´s and rocks playing nothing but their cards.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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miw210
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 25
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by XTR1000
its possible to observe players on multiple tables.
you need a "system" of who you observe for a certain period, say ten minutes. start with the players to your immediate left, b/c they affect your game the most, then go on with the next player to his left and so on. if you use a HUD, you only have to look for obvious lines, players potting bluffs but 2/3ing locks or something like that. at lower stakes you dont even need to make notes or reads on each players, since there are always some unimaginative ABC´s and rocks playing nothing but their cards.
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But to really observe players, don't you need to know what hole cards they have? For that you need them to go to showdown, and it's not like the players to your immediate left will typically be going to showdown very often. Wouldn't it take too long build accurate reads?
I don't know, I guess I agree with Oar. One-tabling is the best way to make accurate reads on opponents.
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holdin2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 279
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And why would players to your immediate left be any less likely to go to showdown than anyone else at the table?
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by miw210
But to really observe players, don't you need to know what hole cards they have?
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Not really. You can make good guesses about how they are playing and what they are feeling from how they bet, even if you never get to see their cards.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by miw210
don't you need to know what hole cards they have?
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u dont need to know their exact hole cards, like i said before, your hud will give u some idea of their ranges. im looking for things like
how often do they 3bet?
how do they react when getting 3bet?
are they cbetting?
what, when their cbets get raised?
i didnt disagree, that its far more easy to observe 1 table. nevertheless, if you´re a winning player, the bit more information u gain cant compensate what your missing by limiting yourself to one table.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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Jager
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 754
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I usually only watch the big pot hands at a table. As I am watching I try to guess exactly what each player holds. The more you do this the better you will get. I only watch the big hands because those are the ones that will have the biggest effect on me. These are the hands where you get to see which players are ready to felt their draws or overpairs. You get to see how they use their bets to get the money in when THEY want to get the money in, and its all free.
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"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jager
I usually only watch the big pot hands at a table.
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This is what I do too. You're gaining and losing most of your money on the big pot so u need to know how they are playing hands in big ones.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I believe you guys can make reads multi-tabling, however, it's better to start with 1. If you cannot read 1, you cannot read 2, 4, or 8.
On thing I like to do (I don't use a hud or have PT open) is, especially after I see a guy playing tight, I do a "find player" on him. Even if I know NOTHING else, knowing a guy is playing 4 tables, 8 tables, or _12_ tables is very useful. At 12 tables, only some kind of starcraft freak can do anything but play on autopilot (not that they can't make good money playing on autopilot).
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Infamous
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 71
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If you have a tight playing style then big pots are the ones you want to watch carefully, as these are the pots you want to play in. Looser styles move towards trying to pick up smaller pots, and for this reason you want to focus on the smaller pots that are shown down. Obviously knowing somebody only calls a flop bet with TP or better can allow you to make more stabs.
At low stakes it is easy enough to use broad categories for opponents and you can very likely profit from playing against them based on what you know of this category from prior experience. Notes will probably not help a great deal as it's unlikely you'll get enough hands in with a given opponent to make good use of them, and over the small sample size you have, could be inaccurate due to the players mindset at the time.
If you multi table you may open one table at a time, paying attention to the players for two orbits or however long until you feel there is enough information on offer.
If while playing a new player joins your table, you may be able to gain information immediately by the amount they buy in with and whether they post their blind OOP. Although this doesn't give you an indication of what cards they will play, I believe that a short stack posting their blind in the CO is more apt to play their hands badly.
Try to get an idea of what players at your table are aware of their position. This is one of the easier things to spot and should give you an indication of their overall knowledge of the game. By coupling this with an idea of their playing style you will, with experience, be more able to pick the correct spots to play with this player. Remember that not all opponents will give you the implied odds to hit sets.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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before PT, i used to categorize players into three categories:
1) rock - solid, umimaginitive, abc player
2) paper - passive, can be run over, but may call too much
3) scissors - aggressive, likes to bet, raise, and bluff
helps to see these behaviors backed up by showdowns, but not mandatory.
that leaves a lot of holes in your reads, but will get you started on spotting trends. and helps when the tables fill up and disintigrate quickly. when you see a note, check it and work on advancing your read based on what you learn. before long, you will have some specific reads mixed in with your generals.
ie, paper...total caller...never raised AA pre or post flop...
if you see something to the contrary, enter your note feature and change it, so you stay current.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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It's not easy gaining reads multitabling, but it's not impossible.
The other day I played one hands against an unknown where I saw a showdown. That one hand labeled that player for the rest of the session. Try to study the hands that have been shown down as much as possible.
IMO 90% of reads online or live are based on betting patterns. Learnng these patterns well comes with experience. Practice practice practice.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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you cant really make reads online until you have played so many hands you can practically put you opps on cards anyway from the way they play them.
Reading inline is just overrated, especially if you arent playing fairly high stakes poker anyway.
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