Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Made the mistake of betting this river. Call shove?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Micro2Macro
Old 01-30-2009, 10:48 PM     Post subject: Made the mistake of betting this river. Call shove? #1 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 On the flop I'm not too sure where I am at. After getting called hands like draws and weaker Kings (Unless someone limped AK) and any connector type hand involving an 8, plus A8 sound like good candidates. I think generally I would be getting raised on the turn here against trips to protect against the FD (ok probably not since that's just how I think), but opponent is unknown so I am unclear whether or not he/she would slowplay top pair/trips/FD or whatever. When the river comes I'm super pissed at myself because I know for a fact betting here has to be a mistake. I don't give any weaker hand a chance to take a shot and I also did a poor job controlling the size of the pot when I'm either way ahead or way behind (or chop of course) out of position. I basically bet without thinking, I did it almost instantly, and the second I fired I felt like I made the wrong play.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.55)
MP2 ($6.78)
CO ($4.82)
Button ($3.02)
Hero (SB) ($2)
BB ($4.89)
UTG ($4.69)
UTG+1 ($4.66)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, Q
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Button calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.12) 8, K, 8 (6 players)
Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.42) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25

River: ($0.92) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.48, MP2 raises to $1.68, Hero ..should not have bet the river

If I could replay this hand I would check the river as opposed to betting for sure. How about the flop and turn? Is betting correct here along with sizing? Is c/f'ing the river in the books or should we be c/c'ing since checking would give a king (or worse to take a stab at the pot)
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Sir Pawnalot
Old 01-30-2009, 10:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
Sir Pawnalot's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 668
Sir Pawnalot
Why would you want to fold? Only hands that beat you are AA, KK and 8. AA and KK are very unlikely since he over limped.

Villain just reads "full house" and thinks he got the nuts.
Reply With Quote
Illfavor
Old 01-30-2009, 10:57 PM #3 (permalink)  
Illfavor's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,152
Illfavor will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Illfavor Send a message via Skype™ to Illfavor
 I could never find a fold here.
Ich grolle nicht...
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 01-30-2009, 11:06 PM #4 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot
Why would you want to fold? Only hands that beat you are AA, KK and 8. AA and KK are very unlikely since he over limped.

Villain just reads "full house" and thinks he got the nuts.
Yeah that's basically my reason for calling. But should I bet here or just check call? Also how's my line on flop+turn
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
poker_pup
Old 01-30-2009, 11:06 PM #5 (permalink)  
Straight

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 130
poker_pup
I like your bet sizing on the flop and turn. If villian had trips, he probably would have gotten greedy and raised.

On the river, villian clearly thinks he has a good hand, but it's hard to say just how good. If you think he's really got the 8, just call. Raise if you think he's got a pocket pair.
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 01:48 AM #6 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
how is betting here bad
how are you not fistpumpinstacalling?
Reply With Quote
xX zorrito Xx
Old 01-31-2009, 02:20 AM #7 (permalink)  
xX zorrito Xx's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
xX zorrito Xx
Send a message via ICQ to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via AIM to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via MSN to xX zorrito Xx Send a message via Yahoo to xX zorrito Xx
dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...

insta-call...

if you're beat i'm pretty sure it's with an 8
 
Reply With Quote
bigspenda73
Old 01-31-2009, 02:41 AM #8 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by xX zorrito Xx
dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...
yea and nits who miss value have no room to speak
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 01-31-2009, 06:33 AM #9 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 I figure betting here is bad because we're most likely looking at a chop. I don't see getting called with worse than a king. Might as well check/call and that way if opponent was on a missed FD and decides to steal we can pick off a possible bluff. Plus something like A8 is really common here in a multiway limped pot - its just unusual for the 1 outer to complete on the river. Check/calling would just give us a chance to get value out of air that the opponent might move in with, whereas betting would usually fold out air and the only thing calling is a king or an 8.

I'm not 'fistpump calling' because I had a really weird feeling like I was beat. It didn't help that my last couple sessions didn't go so hot, I just couldn't see him shoving with anything but the 8.

Oh and of course I called haha, it's just sick how I ran into quads for the second time in that session. (He flipped over A8) I was hoping there was a way I could have minimized the loss here, I figured check/calling would have done it - although I'd probably end up calling a shove anyway. The other hand involving quads I know I couldn't have avoided at all, I can post it if anyone wants to see my line just to be sure but it would be a waste.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 07:38 AM #10 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
you WILL get called by a five
why?

because he has a full house dude
Reply With Quote
AFchung
Old 01-31-2009, 08:20 AM #11 (permalink)  
AFchung's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
AFchung
Send a message via AIM to AFchung
we lose to ace boats and quads, split with kings, and this is 2nl

definitely fold yo.
http://afchung.blogspot.com/
 
Reply With Quote
AnTman_69
Old 01-31-2009, 08:37 AM #12 (permalink)  
AnTman_69's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 463
AnTman_69
Your not thinking about this properly. Take the line that is the most +ev. That is..the line that maximises ur expecatation. Betting this riv at 2nl...you will defnitely get called by worse ALOT. Checking here... and having JJ or something like that check-behind would be a massive mistake.
Reply With Quote
DoanDiggy
Old 01-31-2009, 09:33 AM #13 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
DoanDiggy
Yeah, we have the 3rd nuts here. There is only 1 more 8 in the deck, 2 more Ks, and only 6 combinations of AA. I've seen A-high call here. Any pocket pair that called you on the flop and turn is calling you again on the river, including someone with a 5 as iopq pointed out.

Not betting this river would be terrible. The fact that you ran into quads sucks, but that was a one-time thing. The next time you follow this line and villain calls you on the river with 44 or raises with 9d7d or 3s2s, you can smile and say, "Wtf? These players are that bad?"

Your river bet was pretty good since it allows a player to bluff shove over you and think you might fold. $0.55-.60 would work just as well, though. I'm not sure how often these guys are bluff-shoving the river, anyways, so betting like $0.75 or even more against a total station could actually be more profitable overall.
Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2009, 06:30 PM #14 (permalink)  
Guest

Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
we lose to ace boats and quads, split with kings, and this is 2nl

definitely fold yo.
we split like 80% of the time
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 01-31-2009, 07:12 PM #15 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
you WILL get called by a five
why?

because he has a full house dude
Hahahahaha sooo true. Alot of players are only playing their cards, a boat is a boat to them. And after playing 40 or so hands after with this opponent, the stats came 70/2/.09. . Now that's fishy, and of course this guy is calling with ace high on the river probably, but the fact that I got raised was like wow...he actually made quads. Could anyone lay this down if a player with stats like that and 0% raise on river just shoved into you? I didn't know his stats or style when I was faced with the shove though.

Oh yeah and AA/KK are just out of the picture. It was a multi-way limped pot, if villian was dumb enough to limp AA/KK behind limpers then he's getting paid this one time that his big pair isn't getting cracked.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
DoanDiggy
Old 02-01-2009, 03:39 AM #16 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
DoanDiggy
You would need like 3,000 hands at least on someone before you know that they're only raising the river with the absolute nuts.
Reply With Quote
nice_aiau
Old 02-01-2009, 12:31 PM #17 (permalink)  
nice_aiau's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 260
nice_aiau
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by xX zorrito Xx
dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...
yea and nits who miss value have no room to speak
Lol, mad pwnage

 
Reply With Quote
Miffed22001
Old 02-01-2009, 02:26 PM #18 (permalink)  
Miffed22001's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
Miffed22001 is on a distinguished road
 You need to think about what options you have when you get to the river and which one is best.

Half of the stuff in this thread is a level of lolable
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 02-01-2009, 07:11 PM #19 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
You need to think about what options you have when you get to the river and which one is best.

Half of the stuff in this thread is a level of lolable
I felt like check/calling would have been best. Not because of hindsight but because as soon as I bet I didn't feel betting was the best option. Check/calling would induce weaker hands to bet into me, and it looks like chopping here is highly probable if opp has the king. The problem is I didn't take the time to think, which is why I'm kind of beating myself up over it because I hate making autopilot decisions regardless of how easy they might be.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
nice_aiau
Old 02-01-2009, 11:34 PM #20 (permalink)  
nice_aiau's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 260
nice_aiau
I think betting the river is still better than checking. Alot of hands are going to call but not bet themselves. As played I instacall

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:53 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.