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jmontis
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03-25-2005, 11:44 PM
Post subject: lots of action preflop, smart to push with AA?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Let's say you're on the button with AA in a very loose game
UTG raises 6xBB, 5-6 people call.
Action is to you and the pot is very large, so wouldn't it make sense to try and win the pot right there?
I pushed because I believe you don't want more than 2-3 opponents against AA,
Anyways, UTG called with 88, and i won the pot (40BB). I probably would have lost if I limped because the flop was straight and flush connecting
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Yes. You want to get this heads up. It's not bad to take it down preflop if it's raised that much anyway.
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DoGGz
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How is this even a question. Of course you want to push it....
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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How deep are the stacks?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by doggz
How is this even a question. Of course you want to push it....
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it's a matter of maximizing profit, without getting out-drawn,....
there are times when you don't want to reraise simply because you have the best hand, especially against a weaker field, raising is often less profitable.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Uh...push? raise to the max! You do NOT want 6 opponents in here!
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{This post has been removed}
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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"FYI in a 4 way pot...AA is only a 30% some odd favorite...imagine a 6way"
that's true, but if you pushed aa preflop 1000 times, you'd make more money with 6 callers than with 1, i do believe.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Don't forget to factor in how you'll feel after your AA loses that 70% of the time. That'll cost ya money too. 
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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oh, and to answer your question. I think a push is ok here. i'd probably just reraise to about 4-5x the initial raise though, i think you get 100% folds a lot of the time with a push, i'd want a caller or two, then i'd probably just push the flop regardless unless it came like JQKs
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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If you just reraise here, you'll often end up with several callers. They have a decent commitment to the pot, so a normal-sized reraise is usually bad. With that kind of action, and a healthy pot, you shouldn't be worried if you take it down preflop. It's a nice boost to your stack even if that happens. But if you don't raise enough to get some of them out, you may well end up losing it.
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JeffreyGB
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03-27-2005, 11:41 PM
Post subject: Re: lots of action preflop, smart to push with AA?
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#12 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
Let's say you're on the button with AA in a very loose game
UTG raises 6xBB, 5-6 people call.
Action is to you and the pot is very large, so wouldn't it make sense to try and win the pot right there?
I pushed because I believe you don't want more than 2-3 opponents against AA,
Anyways, UTG called with 88, and i won the pot (40BB). I probably would have lost if I limped because the flop was straight and flush connecting
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One question (beside the fact that you're misusing BB here...BB = Big Bet = 2xbig blind):
UTG raised 6x and 5 people called. That makes the pot 36xBB. You push, presumably for a decent amount if all but one person folded. How is the pot only 4xBB more? Or did he raise it 3xBB making it 18xBB to you and you pushed for 11x more?
In any case, with that small a stack (15x total!?) a push here is an easy decision (speaking as someone who specifically chooses to buyin with a small stack...though I usually go for 20-25x).
- Jeffrey
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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i meant 6x big blind, so it was a $3 raise.
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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mmmmm, fish
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iconoclastic
mmmmm, fish
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?
I'm hoping you're referring to the 1/2 a dozen callers and the guy who called a push with 88...
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iconoclastic
mmmmm, fish
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?
I'm hoping you're referring to the 1/2 a dozen callers and the guy who called a push with 88... |
Yes.
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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Admerylous
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 108
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Preflop, I'll take everything and anything allin with AA.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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raise 4x to 5x preflop, if you get reraised, push. standard AA play.
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face
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 187
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
FYI in a 4 way pot...AA is only a 30% some odd favorite...imagine a 6way
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But if it's 4-way and everyone has a decent amount of money on the table, I agree that in a ring game you would want 4 (or 6) callers allin preflop because the pot is going to lay you 4 or 6 to one on your money. Even though the odds of AA holding up goes down to say .25 or .3 against multiple opponents, this move is still hugely +EV as it crushes the .2 or .14 chance of winning you'd need to justify calling with those kind of pot odds. Of course, if you were risk averse, and knew 6 people were going to call you for all your chips, you might want to see a flop. But this might be a bankroll issue more than anything else (at least for me).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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All-in. You either win a decent-sized pot there, or get called by someone who's dominated. Seems better than seeing a flop and suddenly having an opponent show a lot of interest in the hand.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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i guess i break from the mold a little bit here. to me, that's not a big enough raise to merit a push so easily. sometimes, sure if i'm feeling in the mood. and, i don't necessarily think its a bad play. but, say you're in a .10/.20 room. raise was to 1.20. your stack is 20 dollars. there's a lot of room for raising in there. i'd raise it up to 5-6 dollars. you're going to cut down your callers to at worst 2. lots more money to be made from this hand.
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studboyjoe
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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Loose tables will not respect anything other than a major bet or all-in here. Only way to get the heads-up matchup you want. If everyone folds, fine.
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Spandrel
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 37
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by studboyjoe
Loose tables will not respect anything other than a major bet or all-in here. Only way to get the heads-up matchup you want. If everyone folds, fine.
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That isn't even a given in some instances. I lost twice with wired A's on the low-limit games at Party Poker just last night (once to J3 who hit his two pair on the flop, and once to 78 who got the miracle full-boat on the draw). On loose low-limit tables, where people barely think twice about an AI bet, you can easily get your aces cracked, so your pre-flop bet barely matters. I'm almost just considering limping or calling any bet with my aces, until I can move up to the better tables.
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