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A lot of neutral EV everywhere!

  
 
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Ash256
Old 06-21-2007, 04:18 PM     Post subject: A lot of neutral EV everywhere! #1 (permalink)  
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 Check this thread; this is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...c.php?p=529021

If the AK couldn't be folded that spot, was this a cooler? Is it possible to actually gain much EV over the rest of the field in situations like this?

Here's another couple of examples: I have 67s, I raise preflop in MP, my opponent has A2s and calls on the button and the flop is 345. All hell breaks loose.

Or, a slightly less cold one: I raise 98s preflop, the SB calls, the flop is 986, and we both get it in. He has 86.

Now, in all of these situations, I win the pot and think LOL I WON A BIG POT I PLAY GOOT.

When, in fact, I'm getting the feeling that these hands are all, pretty much neutral EV. Sure, we've gained a few physical buyins, but if we'd get it in with our opponent's hands, then there's no actual gain in EV (Or maybe I mean Sklansky bucks, I'm not sure) whatsoever.

So the question is, how can we make this situations profitable? Is one of these big pots actually any more +EV than when we c-bet a single flop in a 7BB pot?

How do we gain value and edge in these pots? Is it at all possible without turning into a complete nit and losing shitloads of value in other hands?


Anyway, I apologise if my terminology is wrong, please correct me as you go.
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Fnord
Old 06-21-2007, 04:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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You make money in poker by:
o Stealing blinds/antes
o Winning more than your fair share of unloved pots
o Pushing opponents off weak hands by betting more than they can call
o Saving bets when you're behind
o Finding extra bets when you're ahead
o Exploiting your opponents' mistakes
o Not making too many mistakes in early betting rounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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gingerwizard
Old 06-21-2007, 08:33 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
You make money in poker by:
o Stealing blinds/antes
o Winning more than your fair share of unloved pots
o Pushing opponents off weak hands by betting more than they can call
o Saving bets when you're behind
o Finding extra bets when you're ahead
o Exploiting your opponents' mistakes
o Not making too many mistakes in early betting rounds
I love it when he says stuff like this

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bigspenda73
Old 06-21-2007, 08:37 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 He can say it all he wants.

It's much harder to do than to say/type/write/profess
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gingerwizard
Old 06-21-2007, 08:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Soooooooo hard.

But this is the sort of teaching that is invaluable because it encourages those with a brain and the inclination to really think deeply about the game.

It's like I say to my students.. You can practise and read and copy but if you can get to a point where you truly understand why, then you'll be able to do any problem. Same goes for poker.

Now if only i didnt suck...
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mixchange
Old 06-21-2007, 09:04 PM #6 (permalink)  
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at first I thought Fnord's post didn't address the questions, but it really does. You can argue statistically that we end up in the long run with the same choices as every other opponent. Adding in the rake, EV is negative. So to make money, we do the list Fnord posted.
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Fnord
Old 06-21-2007, 09:09 PM #7 (permalink)  
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People focus too much on their big pot game and not enough on small and medium pots IMHO. Unless you're up against fish or drunks, big pot aren't where it's at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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