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RevolverX
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05-05-2006, 08:46 PM
Post subject: Losing money on blinds.
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Let's say you get dealt 104o for an hour straight at a table. How do you recoup that money lost from the BB and SB? Do you bluff preflop every so often to offset this? Looking through Poker tracker the past two days, I've won some decent pots by playing TAG at the micro stakes tables, but my BR hasnt relaly increased because of the constant folding.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Results oriented much? You're supposed to lose money in the blinds. Think of it like rake, except it's called rape.
What you're asking is not how to recoup lost blinds, but how to be profitable in general. That my friend is way too broad a subject for one thread.
If you catch T4 offsuit for an hour straight, then keep folding, since you won't catch T4 offsuit till the end of time, or even 3 straight hands.
Sounds like you may have patience issues. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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ZOMG! Folding so darn much COSTS MONEY!
ZOMG! I have TEN FOUR offsuit I'M ALL-IN!
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Well forgive me as I am quite new to NL holdem, but logically if you've been folding straight for the past hour and tehn AA comes, and you raise 4-5x the BB, isn't that a dead giveaway that you have a monster hand?
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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why would you fold for an hour straight? not theoretically, but on an average day getting normal cards, you'd never fold for an hour straight.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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RevolverX: That would be the stereotypical action of a "rock". I'd be amazed if people picked up on that at your/my stakes.
In reality, you should raise every hand that you raise the same not to "tip your cap". (Like TT vs. AA vs. AK/AQ). I'd also recommend that you multi-table (at least 2 possible 3-4) that will curb any desire you have to play poor hands.
Also, search for posts by AOKordingly (Or "Starting 19") for other recommendations on starting hands.
I'd guarantee that you're more likely losing money from betting on hands in the sb/bb that you never would otherwise. (Paying .5bb for T50/Kx, getting involved from the BB with hands like Kx on a K high flop). At least that was the case for me.
If you figure you see 60 hands an hour at a table, pay 1.5BB per 10 that's 10BB for not playing a single hand the entire hour. Not so bad.
Good Luck.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by yorib
Also, search for posts by AOKordingly (Or "Starting 19") for other recommendations on starting hands.
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Lol
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither!
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Nova442
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 43
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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10BB (actually 9?), not 10$, that's ~1$ per table hour.
Also you can hit a very cold run of cards but if you have a VPIP of 20% and just check out of the big blind your chances of not playing any cards for 60 hands are incredibly small. Maybe you're not patient enough to play true TAG and should either learn discipline or open up to a SLAG or LAG style.
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"Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of War."
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither! |
I realize you're the moderator and all, but as I was going through your archive looking for strategy posts, I found I had to sift through alot of flames, cuss outs, and spam. I'm curious why you behave this way when 95% of this forum looks up to you?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...-holdem-4.html
Come back in 1-3 months and we'll be speaking the same language.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither! |
I realize you're the moderator and all, but as I was going through your archive looking for strategy posts, I found I had to sift through alot of flames, cuss outs, and spam. I'm curious why you behave this way when 95% of this forum looks up to you? |
To make himself feel better! lol
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Vrax
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
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Cost of single hand full ring=0.15BB
40 hands/h * 0.15BB * 4tabling *$0.10 *10h = - $24 if you fold for an entire day 4-tabling without any playable hand.
Hell, on those tables you can even play "nit poker" and only pocket pairs for overall profit.
Cost $10/hour single tabling? Well, you must have leaks.
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"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Don't mind Fnord. He hasn't been taking his Flintstone Vitamins. Start out in the beginners forum. You don't want to address this forum with beginner issues.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Lukie
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05-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Post subject: Re: Losing money on blinds.
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#17 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
Let's say you get dealt 104o for an hour straight at a table. How do you recoup that money lost from the BB and SB? Do you bluff preflop every so often to offset this? Looking through Poker tracker the past two days, I've won some decent pots by playing TAG at the micro stakes tables, but my BR hasnt relaly increased because of the constant folding. |
If you get dealt T4o for an hour straight, you should probably fold for an hour straight.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Ya if the bar is full of two dollar yeast infected warpigs with eyepatches and a rare thirst for onion and garlic sandwiches, should you really start hitting on one of them when the hotties don't show up?
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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everyone loses money in the blinds over a long period of time
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
everyone loses money in the blinds over a long period of time
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If my PT stats reveal anything with stark clarity, it is this: if it were not for the blinds, I would be a far, far more profitable player. It is truly amazing....
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holdin2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by relayer
If my PT stats reveal anything with stark clarity, it is this: if it were not for the blinds, I would be a far, far more profitable player. It is truly amazing....
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Don't forget to subtract out the blind money you scooped up for every pot you've won. 
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither! |
My god, you are a veritable fount of sarcasm today. Me likey!
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,040
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He ate way too many sarcastic sandwiches for lunch.
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Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.
"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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crushednuts
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 106
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Personally I love putting money in before I see my cards. In fact, I am such a good player I never look at my cards. I raise every pot. I can see into your SOUL. I make $1,000,000 a day playing 5c/10c poker!! HA!
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Lodogg
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Stealing your C-bet
Posts: 199
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither! |
I realize you're the moderator and all, but as I was going through your archive looking for strategy posts, I found I had to sift through alot of flames, cuss outs, and spam. I'm curious why you behave this way when 95% of this forum looks up to you? |
Have you ever seen a pic of him on this website? I too would cutdown a bunch of people if I looked like a fuc*** dork. He is what we refer to as an asshole out here in California. And on top of it all, I don't think he is that great of a poker player. There are much better/helpful players here. If these comments cause me to be banned, then it was well worth it. The bottom line is that FTR would be a much better forum without him.
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RevolverX
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Straight
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 112
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lodogg
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RevolverX
You know it never occurred to me it costs $10 per hour per table to play at the 10 NL level? Wow.
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Me neither! |
I realize you're the moderator and all, but as I was going through your archive looking for strategy posts, I found I had to sift through alot of flames, cuss outs, and spam. I'm curious why you behave this way when 95% of this forum looks up to you? |
Have you ever seen a pic of him on this website? I too would cutdown a bunch of people if I looked like a fuc*** dork. He is what we refer to as an asshole out here in California. And on top of it all, I don't think he is that great of a poker player. There are much better/helpful players here. If these comments cause me to be banned, then it was well worth it. The bottom line is that FTR would be a much better forum without him. |
Because of the fact that he gave out FALSE ADVICE on the BEGINNER'S forum I'm going to have to side with you on this one.
Fnord you're supposed to be helping the beginners get better, not instructing them to make plays that can cost them their entire stack.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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rofl fnord PWNED
plz don't strike me for bumping this
I want to reopen the discussion. Good players, please respond with tactics to lose less money on blinds in a NL ring game, so I will make more money at poker.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Maybe try being a little bit less of a nit in the blinds? Mix in a few random re-steals against aggressive late position raisers. I don't know, you're losing a pretty huge amount of money there based on the chart you posted in the other thread. You only posted 35K hands so it's possible you've just gotten unlucky during them. Your VPIP% and PFR% seem awfully low even for full ring (fwiw I haven't played a full ring cash game in months).
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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lol best thread ever, I somehow missed the whole Fnord bashing party...
But in all seriousness I like the guy. He's really cool if you get a chance to talk to him and he helped me out a ton on my way up.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
rofl fnord PWNED
plz don't strike me for bumping this
I want to reopen the discussion. Good players, please respond with tactics to lose less money on blinds in a NL ring game, so I will make more money at poker.
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hmm
fold your small blind more
reraise out of both blinds with a much wider range then you're used to against late position raisers who have a large range.
kinda hard to explain this one, but I think about what my opponent is going to do post-flop. Like if it's heads up and i'm in the blinds and I call, then check the flop, he's going to c-bet. Try to avoid this or exploit it, ie by reraising more and calling less out of the blinds, leading and stealing his cbet, check/raising, etc.
bb has such an enormous advantage in a blind battle against the sb, exploit this.
bunch of other random ideas i can't think of right now...
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Ya if the bar is full of two dollar yeast infected warpigs with eyepatches and a rare thirst for onion and garlic sandwiches, should you really start hitting on one of them when the hotties don't show up?
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No. This is where you try to hit trips. Granted, they might be trip deuces, but it's still trips.
Quote:
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Have you ever seen a pic of him on this website? I too would cutdown a bunch of people if I looked like a fuc*** dork.
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I don't know, Rumsfeld isn't excactly pretty, but a "fuck*** dork"?
(No, I don't have anything to add to the discussion.)
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Most micro/low stakes players lose so much money out of the blinds not because they're folding but rather because they're calling too much, and with the wrong hands.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Raise!
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
Most micro/low stakes players lose so much money out of the blinds not because they're folding but rather because they're calling too much, and with the wrong hands.
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qft
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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ive found i lose a let less now that if i come in from the bb/sb when there is a raise in front i either call with implied odds hands (pps mostly) or i reraise, simply because a wide range of players dont want to get involved in big pots post-flop with one pair hands in reraise scenarios which has provided me with a post-flop edge to steal pots that arent really mine. This is 6max though, so i dont know hoe effective it would be at full ring, other to say that i win more than 70% of reraised pots i play at full ring because ill bully ep players from HJ/CO/Button with the same hands they are playing and as we know, players dont want to go bust all in with AK on Axx when they are at worst splitting and at best losing to AA.
I also have the smallest vpip from the bb than any other position at the table, smallest showdown percentage yet biggest W@sd with nearly 65% over 50-80k
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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I have been reraising hands like AQ/AJs to late position openers and losing a total shitload of money doing so.
I think its just variance but you never can tell. Thoughts?
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
I have been reraising hands like AQ/AJs to late position openers and losing a total shitload of money doing so.
I think its just variance but you never can tell. Thoughts?
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Really dependant on how the raiser is playing (ie will they call you down with TT unimproved?), but for the most part, I think the raise and cbet in these situations are generally +EV and is pretty standard, IF the guy is truly opening a wide range. If it's just a late position opener, you have to understand that some people don't raise nearly enough hands in late position...
edit: spots like this are really tough to give advice on. Because there are merits to calling, 3-betting, and folding, depending on a whole bunch of factors. Something to keep in mind is that a lot of the tough players in the stars 2/4 game (and who give me a shitload of problems and definately have an edge on me) will be playing back at me with worse.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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This is the standard deal. I have AQo on the BB, someone whose raises a 25+% range in late position raises to 6 or 7, I repop to 20-23 and he calls. Flop is like Jxxr or something, and I bet like 32 into a 47 pot and he inevitably calls or raises, forcing me to shutdown having lost 1/4 a stack.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
This is the standard deal. I have AQo on the BB, someone whose raises a 25+% range in late position raises to 6 or 7, I repop to 20-23 and he calls. Flop is like Jxxr or something, and I bet like 32 into a 47 pot and he inevitably calls or raises, forcing me to shutdown having lost 1/4 a stack.
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2 streets bluff
Start raising weak players and ep openers who arent 'lukie-rcok-tight' and will only have an undominated hands.
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Rockymv
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
I like the guy.
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Me too.
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dwags222
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gaylord, MI
Posts: 151
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well...i'm playing 100nl right now but, i find that whenever i have a big pp in the blinds and a ton of limpers and i raise 6-8xbb no one ever calls...obvious thing to do is to raise really big once in a while in the blind w/ absolute crap hands when everyone limps in...i think this can be a pretty successful tactic when used wisely.
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