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bunthorne
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01-30-2006, 09:19 PM
Post subject: losing to draws against the odds
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
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I need some advice, guys.
Lately I've been getting sucked out big time in cash games by players drawing against the odds and hitting. Yesterday I was sucked out six or seven times in an hour by making a pot sized bet on the turn when well in front (trips, two pair of TPTK), thus giving odds of two to one, and being called by one player only each time with a flush draw or an up and down straight draw, or in some cases even a gutshot. Needless to say, they hit every time.
I know that the play is correct as I'm not giving the correct odds to my opponent and as I'm getting my money in when favourite I am making the right move. Even with implied odds calling in these situations is not correct. But I am losing badly when it happens.
The crazy thing is that they don't usually miss on the turn. They either fold their cards or they call and hit. And that is frustrating, as every time the hand went as far as the river i suffered a bad beat. Most of my opponents are scandinavi
I've tried using "counterplay" but i find I am not getting enough from my big hands.
Any advice or strategies to recommend? And please, no replies saying I'm whinging or just running bad. I need to develop a way of playing to counteract this.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Try not to pay it off on the river.
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bunthorne
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Try not to pay it off on the river.
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I don't. If I think I am beat then I fold.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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People like to bluff flushes at the river sometimes, so you might call even though you think you're beat. Anyway, it's all about odds. Just keep potting it if they'll call.
I don't know which limit you play, but some players at 10NL will call any all-in with a flushdraw. So, push against them.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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I know that the play is correct as I'm not giving the correct odds to my opponent and as I'm getting my money in when favourite I am making the right move. Even with implied odds calling in these situations is not correct.
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As long as you understand that.
Poker is a horrible short-term game...
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Scarface
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 32
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To help not paying it off on the river. If the bet on the flop or turn is more than 35% of your stack then you should probably just go all in. Very hard to let it go when the flush or straight comes out and you have put so much in. This also prevents people from bluffing when they miss their draw but another draw comes out (e.g on SD when 3 of one suit fall).
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bunthorne
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
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Thanks guys, much appreciated.
I realise it is a horrible short term game and it got worse today.
I play in $100 or $200 buy-in no limit cash games. One from the button raises to 4 x bb, I call with ATs intending to dump if i miss flop. SB and BB call putting 16 x bb in the pot. Flop comes J T 8 rainbow. Raiser bets 4 x bb, a gutless probe bet i feel, so i call as do the others.
Turn is a T. Evryone checks round to me - i make a pot sized bet. SB calls after some hesitation, others fold. I am positive that I am in front. River is a 9. Damn. SB bets about 15% of the pot. I fear he has hit the straight but I'm getting such great odds that I call. He turns over QJ for a straight.
Maybe I should have moved all-in on the turn but i wanted to get some action with my trips but not to be outdrawn.
I suppose that in one sense I should be glad he called with QJ. He has to hit either a J or a 9 to beat me - 6 outs and he was only getting 2/1. He must have put me on trips but he still called. That is what I can't understand. But....he did make the winning hand!
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IOS
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 84
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bunthorne
That is what I can't understand. But....he did make the winning hand!
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Be happy. It's people like that, that will make you money in the long run.
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bunthorne
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IOS
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bunthorne
That is what I can't understand. But....he did make the winning hand!
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Be happy. It's people like that, that will make you money in the long run. |
true, but in the short run it is painful!!!!
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Off5th
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ewa Beach
Posts: 180
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Quote:
As long as you understand that.
Poker is a horrible short-term game...
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I strongly agree. If you play poker like a short-term game, you'll end up losing in the long-term. And that's a garauntee.
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"I want to win money so I play the worst. If I could find a group of 2nd graders with $200 bankrolls I would play them."
-Aokrangly
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bunthorne
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 147
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Off5th
Quote:
As long as you understand that.
Poker is a horrible short-term game...
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I strongly agree. If you play poker like a short-term game, you'll end up losing in the long-term. And that's a garauntee. |
Yes, I take that point!
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