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StageWhisper
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07-19-2007, 10:31 PM
Post subject: Live Game Stategy to Beat the Stradle?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 90
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I've recently starting to play at a casino that allows a straddle of any amount at their 1/2 NL ($50-$200 buyin). Friday and Saturday nights the games there can be pretty wild, with live straddles of $20 - $200 every hand with 4-5 callers of the straddle (few raises). I've only played in this type of game once here and was completely card dead. Late in the game I called w/ K10s, hit a 10 high flop and called down 3-handed to win a $500 dollar pot with a pair of 10s. Someone nearly always tries to bluff at every hand, and nearly every pot is in the hundreds. Stacks get pretty deep, some $1500 and more.
Is this just too swingy of a game to play? Any advice for beating this game or any game where the straddle is unlimited?
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I'm just a girl, you should push.
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Lithium
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
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Are you saying that every hand is always straddled for up to $200? That isn't poker, that is two card bingo. If the game is really that wild, my suggestion would be to find another table or game where people actually want to play poker.
If it is only particular people, then I would change seats so that those people are not UTG when you have a blind. That way, you can see your cards without having to fork over free money. If you are AQ, AK, or JJ+, move all in preflop.
The best way to beat a straddle is to follow the above paragraph so you aren't losing blinds, and also only come in when you have a raising hand. I find that raising the straddle generally cuts out the BS pretty quick.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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i'm a nit, by trade. so, i would avoid this game like the plague. its not the straddle that bothers me, its the hitting a T high flop with a K kicker and being called by 3 others after an aggressive flop bet.
thats just stupid poker, to me. you can beat it, but the variance would be hell on wheels.
my best guess is play tighter than tight. play TT+, ATs+, AQo+. and raise them all hard. limp KQ, KJs, QJs, and 77+. boooooriing poker at its finest.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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I'd love to play at a table with people throwing a lot of money in the pot with nothing. I'd just wait for a great hand and stick it all in.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lithium
Are you saying that every hand is always straddled for up to $200? That isn't poker, that is two card bingo. If the game is really that wild, my suggestion would be to find another table or game where people actually want to play poker.
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You hate money that much?
With 1/2 blinds you could shove QQ+/AK maybe JJ/AQ and crush that game.
WTB: Discussion that doesn't suck of what effect the straddle has on the game.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lithium
If it is only particular people, then I would change seats so that those people are not UTG when you have a blind. That way, you can see your cards without having to fork over free money. If you are AQ, AK, or JJ+, move all in preflop.
The best way to beat a straddle is to follow the above paragraph so you aren't losing blinds, and also only come in when you have a raising hand. I find that raising the straddle generally cuts out the BS pretty quick.
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The comment about the effect on the equity of the blinds is the most worthwhile comment yet. Ideally, you want the straddle on when you have the button, DUCY?
Why would you want them to stop?
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Lithium
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
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Fnord,
I don't think we have any disagreement (see my comment regarding the shove range). Many clubs (particularly the ones I play), however, have a button blind as well as a small and big blind. In that case you wouldn't want a person three seats to your left always straddling. If that is the case, you are also losing more chips (say $6 per lap out of a $100 buy in), and that may make it tough for you to gain positive equity if you stack dwindles down to about $25-$30 before you catch a hand worth shoving. I personally don't like playing short stack strategy.
It all depends on your chip depth and ability to rebuy. If one wants to play this type of game, another suggestion would be to always keep your chip size at maximum through constant refills.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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sounds like the house does it again by finding a way where only they are the long term winner.
eeeesh.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lithium
Many clubs (particularly the ones I play), however, have a button blind as well as a small and big blind. In that case you wouldn't want a person three seats to your left always straddling.
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Are you really talking about a button blind that goes into the pot, or a form of house rake that is taken from the person on the button -- i.e., a time charge? If the latter, then I do not see how this should have any effect on your strategy as you cannot possibly win it back. If the former, please elaborate on how this is implemented in terms of the order of betting. A true button blind would seriously change your strategy regardless of straddles.
ChezJ
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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I agree with I like pie. funny name btw, but brutal for referring to like I just did.
I'd make two bets: preflop and on the flop. By that time, all of my chips would be in the middle. If people want to play gamble gamble poker, so be it. I don't mind it once in a while. The only problem would be what Choppah said, in that variance would be a bitch.
I'm thinking of going to Casino Niagara Friday night, anyone interested?
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StageWhisper
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 90
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When the higher straddles are up, there is no fold equity until you are really deep. If you can expect to be called by 1-3 people, are AK and AQ still a push preflop?
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I'm just a girl, you should push.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by StageWhisper
If you can expect to be called by 1-3 people, are AK and AQ still a push preflop?
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YES!
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I Like Pie
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 399
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
I agree with I like pie. funny name btw, but brutal for referring to like I just did.
I'd make two bets: preflop and on the flop. By that time, all of my chips would be in the middle. If people want to play gamble gamble poker, so be it. I don't mind it once in a while. The only problem would be what Choppah said, in that variance would be a bitch.
I'm thinking of going to Casino Niagara Friday night, anyone interested?
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Good old Casino Niagara. Playing there can be incredibly fun when things are going well against all the maniacs there but if you're losing to these guys it's very frustrating. Too bad I can't go this weekend. I don't make it there too much during the summer. And now that they stopped running buses there I make it there even less.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Is no-cap live straddle S.O.P. in B&M ring games? I always thought straddles were a straight 2x BB, and UTG+1 has the option of double straddling for 4x BB, and UTG+2 has the option of triple straddling for 8xBB in the event that it's double straddled, etc. I didn't think you could just say "I'm live straddling $x" where X is a random amount over 2xBB.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Whatever works.
If someone wants to go all-in in the dark I'm certainly not going to stop him.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Straddle by definition buys you the option on preflop action. This is not the same as betting dark.
I.e. in a $1/$2 if there is no-cap on straddle amounts, I can stradle 10xBB UTG for $20 without looking at my cards, anyone wanting to enter the pot has to call that $20, and if no one raises preflop, as a live straddle I get the option of raising after the original BB acts. Much, much, much different.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
Straddle by definition buys you the option on preflop action. This is not the same as betting dark.
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Yes, but raising more than the minimum causes you to way over-pay for the chance to act last pre-flop. Straddling for an entire buy-in is flat out giving money away.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by overflow
Straddle by definition buys you the option on preflop action. This is not the same as betting dark.
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Yes, but raising more than the minimum causes you to way over-pay for the chance to act last pre-flop. Straddling for an entire buy-in is flat out giving money away. |
I wasn't debating that, just clarifying that a live straddle for a fraction of your stack is not entirely the same as betting the same amount dark.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
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Quote:
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Late in the game I called w/ K10s, hit a 10 high flop and called down 3-handed to win a $500 dollar pot with a pair of 10s. Someone nearly always tries to bluff at every hand, and nearly every pot is in the hundreds. Stacks get pretty deep, some $1500 and more
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Quote:
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i would avoid this game like the plague
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Lithium
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 79
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
Are you really talking about a button blind that goes into the pot, or a form of house rake that is taken from the person on the button -- i.e., a time charge? If the latter, then I do not see how this should have any effect on your strategy as you cannot possibly win it back. If the former, please elaborate on how this is implemented in terms of the order of betting. A true button blind would seriously change your strategy regardless of straddles.
ChezJ
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Yes, it is a true button blind. For instance, at Casino San Pablo, the $100 buying game is a $2/$2/$2 structure, with all of that going into the pot. It is also $4 to go minimum, so there is no true big blind either. The drop is $3 for 7-10 players, $2 for 6 or less, and always $1 for the jackpot.
Betting is the same, three to the left of the button acts first preflop, and then immediate left of the button on all other streets. They do not allow a live straddle, btw.
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