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ponyboy
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07-02-2008, 08:01 PM
Post subject: A little too nitty or just right?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Over my first 1000 hands at 5nl I'm running 16/6, but most of the times I'm investing is in the BB where I see 66% of flops due to just checking. I'm happy with my play so far but I'm wondering if I'm almost playing too tight at this level. I'm finding that at some tables when I loosen my starting requirements my profits increase. So far I'm 5.3BB/100 hands up so I'm happy with the results so far.
Just keep going I guess? My strategy is slow bankroll building and eventually to move up to 10nl once I get 20 buyins.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I assume this is Fullring?
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d0zer
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07-02-2008, 08:49 PM
Post subject: Re: A little too nitty or just right?
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#3 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Over my first 1000 hands at 5nl I'm running 16/6, but most of the times I'm investing is in the BB where I see 66% of flops due to just checking.
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I always thought that when you check in the BB, it doesn't count towards your '16%'. That's your VPIP (voluntarily put $ in pot). The BB is 'involuntary'. If you complete in the SB then it counts.
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Hawk
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07-02-2008, 09:12 PM
Post subject: Re: A little too nitty or just right?
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#4 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by d0zer
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Over my first 1000 hands at 5nl I'm running 16/6, but most of the times I'm investing is in the BB where I see 66% of flops due to just checking.
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I always thought that when you check in the BB, it doesn't count towards your '16%'. That's your VPIP (voluntarily put $ in pot). The BB is 'involuntary'. If you complete in the SB then it counts. |
Yes, thats correct, though I'm not sure if it counts those hands if you later put money into the pot.
ponyboy, It looks like you limp/call too much. Generally you should raise if you are going to play a hand. If you aren't comfortable raising, you should fold unless you have a specific reason to call (like playing a low pp for a set).
The 16 part is probably fine, just work on the 6 part.
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silu73
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,009
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I actually want to say that there is too much emphasis on stats when people start out playing poker seriously. If you have been a consistent winner over a LARGE sample then why change?
Cocco-Bills (just check out PT stats since April thread) stats are apparently not "optimal" for shorthanded high stakes games but obviously he is crushing the game. Punketty on Stars also seems to do well with a less than "optimal" stats.
That's just my 2 cents worth.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by silu73
I actually want to say that there is too much emphasis on stats when people start out playing poker seriously. If you have been a consistent winner over a LARGE sample then why change?
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I agree completely.
Drew for example plays with a very wide VP$IP / PFR margin. Certainly not an 'FTR endorsed PF stat', but he beats 200NL.
Postflop is where the big monies are lost and won, and there isn't a stat that comments on postflop skill. (AF maybe at the extreme ends, but even so...)
That being said -- I'm sure we all have preflop leaks which affect winrate slightly, but nitpicking your preflop game when you've got (likely) bigger postflop leaks is like trying to repair a nail hole in a tire full of bullets.
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ponyboy
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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Thanks for all the input. A valid point has been made which is, if you find a style that works for you then why adjust it. However, I'm sure that is found after many thousands of hands, not the first 1000. First things first, and obviously plugging leaks preflop by tightening up is only a good thing. Then I can work on my post flop play.
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ponyboy
Thanks for all the input. A valid point has been made which is, if you find a style that works for you then why adjust it. However, I'm sure that is found after many thousands of hands, not the first 1000. First things first, and obviously plugging leaks preflop by tightening up is only a good thing. Then I can work on my post flop play.
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Still, for noobies we FTR folks mostly suggest a tighter style. Learn to play quality hands - that helps your postflop instincts develop quicker since you almost always have "live" cards postflop.
Full Ring: I play a 16/12 style, which is standard TAGG I suppose
6max: I play more like 22/18, fairly TAGGish for short-handed
Also, these stats combine all the positions at the poker table. You need to learn about position, and you probably ought to open nearly twice as many hands from the button (BTN) than from under the gun (UTG ).
Full Ring: I open 10/8 UTG and maybe 21/15 BTN.
6max: I open probably 12/11 UGT and at least 28/20 BTN.
For the seats in between, all my EP and MP (early position and middle position) ranges are pretty close to UTG, though I add a few hands in towards later position. But I really open up from the BTN (FR) and the cutoff (6max especially).
When you sees someone's overall stats, you don't how positionally adjusted they are. Also, different sites, levels and styles have different amounts of limped pots which dramatically impacts your stats by getting you involved from the blinds more often in unraised pots. This is especially true at 6max.
As a general rule, try to gamble more money with good cards and from good position, and try to limit your investment in mediocre hands and from early position. All of us try to do that, regardless of our preflop stats.
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