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A little fun about to turn ugly???

  
 
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AHiltz
Old 04-18-2006, 12:25 PM     Post subject: A little fun about to turn ugly??? #1 (permalink)  
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I've been at the table for close to an hour. Wife is getting home from work soon. Cards have been ice cold most of the night. Boredom is setting in. Then this rolls along for amusement purposes. Due to cold cards I haven't been in all that many pots. I'm probably showing up as tight pass/aggr to anyone monitoring me.

SB has been at the table for 2 orbits. I'm 4 tabling for bonus, so no solid reads except for pt #'s of 29/10/4.

BB is a rock. Over 80 hand he's 11/1/1.

50NL on Party
Me $80
SB $53
BB $47

All fold around to hero on button who has

Hero min raises to $1
SB calls
BB calls



check, check, Hero bets pot $3. SB min raises to $6. BB folds, hero calls.



SB bets pot $15. Hero ???
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pgil
Old 04-18-2006, 05:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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...pays off a higher flush (unlikely) and stacks a set/2pair. unless the average player at your stakes/site will check-min raise on a flush draw, you are good here. if it were a check-AI raise, then he would be more likely to have a draw at 50nl, but then you wouldnt be in this mess. he tried to string you along even though the board was scary and now he is betting big in the hopes of chasing you off because now the board is really god damn scary. just my opinion though.
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
 
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piratepeaty
Old 04-18-2006, 05:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Don't min raise preflop... especially with this weak hand. Raise to at least $1.5 preflop and take down the blinds. If SB calls you min raise BB is calling profitably with almost any two. You have position, you want this HU, then you can cbet and take down most flops.

The turn is somewhat confusing, he made a big bet, and you have no read (4-tabling is no excuse). His min-check raise is also confusing and may mean a strong draw like A10d, QJd, but it could easily be 2-pair, TPTK, a set, JJ, ect.

I think you are good well over half the time here (you also have a 2 card draw to the nuts), so I like a raise. He's down to his last $30, so I would raise it to $35 and hope he pushes.

My thought here would be to extract as much as possible from this guy. If he has a better flush, it happens. Make a note that he min-check-raises nut flush draws and pay more attention next time.
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AHiltz
Old 04-18-2006, 06:00 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Don't read this if you don't want the outcome.

Here are my thoughts along the way. He calls preflop with any two knowing there is little chance of being reraised by the rock to his left.
Flop hits and my draw is well concealed. He min check raises me telling me that he really likes his hand. Could possibly be a flush, but most likely overs or a set.
Turn comes off and he leads out. Well, rule out the flush unless he's trying to extract the minimum amount possible. I'm 99% sure he has an overpair or set and is trying to protect. A smaller bet from him would have done the same thing, but oh well.

With that I push over top of him. He couldn't call me fast enough. He flips over.............................. QQ no diamond. I guess he really liked his hand. River comes a J spades and game over.

He really played this hand poorly IMO. Unless I have total air I'm calling that flop minraise. I know he doesn't have a flush on the turn when he pots it, so potting it is just getting him closer to being pot fucked.

I could have had AA, AKs, KK, TT and my line would make total sense, and he's way behind to any of these. Why he called my push is beyond me, but my bankroll said nh sir.
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ttanaka
Old 04-18-2006, 06:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Great play, definitely call that min check-raise.

http://poker-tools.FlopTurnRiver.com...Calculator.php
FlopTurnRiver.com -h 4d 8d - qs qc -- 4c 9d td
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 4c Td 9d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8d 4d 505 51.01 485 48.99 0 0.00 0.510
Qs Qc 485 48.99 505 51.01 0 0.00 0.490

After the flop, you were still a slight favorite at 51% over QQ.
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gabe
Old 04-18-2006, 06:25 PM #6 (permalink)  
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i would not minraise preflop, just make it $3

i would reraise his minraise on the flop because your hand is so good, and i would push over his turn bet
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piratepeaty
Old 04-18-2006, 08:21 PM #7 (permalink)  
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oops, I missed that you had a pair on the flop as well, so I don't mind a reraise here. I like a call better because he may have a set or 2 pair, that would could cut down on some of your outs.

I still prefer a smaller raise on the turn, even a min raise would get him committed for his chips with any overpair, two pair, set, or straight. Of course, this depends on your image, if you have been pushing alot of turns uncontested, or with TP, he's probably more likely to call a push.

I totally agree tho, villian played this hand very bad.
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piratepeaty
Old 04-18-2006, 08:40 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
i would reraise his minraise on the flop because your hand is so good...
I don't mind this play, but I think it is far from the best possible play. The only hand we are really ahead of is TP or an overpair (and I think bottom 2). Based on the preflop action and overpair seems unlikely. Even if he has an overpair we are only very very slim favorite. His range contains more hands that we are behind than those we are ahead. Raising in this spot also gives him the opportunity to reraise us, instead of letting us draw cheap. Raising here gives him a chance to give us worse odds to call.

To summarize, if he is ahead, we are getting great odds (pot and implied) to call and we capitalize on his mistake of letting us draw so cheap. If we are behind, we potentially ruin (or lower) our odds by giving him another chance to defend his hand properly.
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Rondavu
Old 04-18-2006, 08:56 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratepeaty
If he is ahead, we are getting great odds (pot and implied) to call and we capitalize on his mistake of letting us draw so cheap. If we are behind, we potentially ruin (or lower) our odds by giving him another chance to defend his hand properly [if we reraise on the flop].
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Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Miffed22001
Old 04-18-2006, 09:42 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
i would not minraise preflop, just make it $3

i would reraise his minraise on the flop because your hand is so good, and i would push over his turn bet
Id like this line too but i guess he would have come over the top. His miniraise oop suggests you might get away with calling. I actually like the line. Id def have pushed the turn as played.
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natdang
Old 04-18-2006, 10:02 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I like your the line you chose a lot, I'd slam it all in right then. If you run into a higher flush (which it doesn't look like, since he played it pretty weakly, too weak for high cards) then pay it off, you still have a few ways of improving your hand too.
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