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naturalassassin
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03-01-2009, 02:44 AM
Post subject: Limping with KK UTG
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
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In a full ring game what conditions would it be better to limp with KK UTG? I believe by raising UTG, you limit the competition and their starting hand range. Hoping for someone to open the door preflop can be dangerous and I'd rather have AA or AK but some people limp with KK.
My thoughts are:
considering a loose passive table. you raise more in an effort to scare. I like overbets here. 5BB... or more sometimes.
considering a loose aggressive table. you raise less hoping for a reraise. 2.5-3BB
cosidering a tight passive table. you raise less hoping for a reraise or one caller/shipper in the blinds.
considering a tight aggressive table. you raise more hoping for a reraise or one caller or shipper in the blinds.
its good to be the 1st raiser because if the pot is raise 3 times more. I'd consider folding in this case.
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Don't knock on deaths door... ring the bell and run! Death hates that LOL.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Add never to the poll, the option is always available.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Pig_Vomit
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 165
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wtf?
level?
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Not gonna lie, I've limped KK before. With the intent of re-raising any isolatin raisers.
Microstakes are too passive though. Either I end up in a huge multiway pot, or I end up re-raising my isolator seeing him fold. Straightforward at the micros.
You're giving up way too much Preflop edge for a postflop edge you don't have.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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MichaelGotAA
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Preston, England
Posts: 6
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I never limp KK UTG.
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Revolver123
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 123
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There is no reason to limp KK or AA in any position at the microstakes as those players have zero positional awareness. Some people at micros don't even know what UTG is. And most people raise any two cards in any position... I see alot of ATo, AJo, KTo raises UTG. But they definitely don't think "he raised UTG so he must have AK AQs or TT+"
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Add never to the poll, the option is always available.
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Never is <50% fwiw
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Add never to the poll, the option is always available.
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Never is <50% fwiw |
fwiw yeah no shit 0% is less than 50% but it would be better to add in never because some people will never do it. It would be a good option to add to tell the surveyor the difference between those who never do, and those who do it rarely.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I do this in live games sometimes.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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never. sorry
maybe in rare tournament situations when theres a bunch of aggro monkeys on my table. even so, i'd probably just raise and hope to get 3bet
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naturalassassin
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 59
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pig_Vomit
wtf?
level?
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I'll post this in the other forum and redo the poll. I play live 1-2 & 2-5. I play micro stakes on pokerstars. Just started my account.
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Don't knock on deaths door... ring the bell and run! Death hates that LOL.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Never limped KK in my life.
You'd need 8 limpers to build the same pot that you get if you raise 4x and get just one caller... Nevermind that you probably got outflopped at that point. If it's important for you to win a lot of hands then go ahead and limp KK. If you want to make money, I suggest your raise it every time. At some point you need to get the money in. It's much easier if you already built a pot.
There are some special situations where you could limp, but those are so rare, that I really don't want to get into it.
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flomo
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: mashing potatoes
Posts: 878
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is there an option to fold it UTG?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Not gonna lie, I've limped KK before. With the intent of re-raising any isolatin raisers.
Microstakes are too passive though. Either I end up in a huge multiway pot, or I end up re-raising my isolator seeing him fold. Straightforward at the micros.
You're giving up way too much Preflop edge for a postflop edge you don't have.
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QFT
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Jovar
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 20
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Quote:
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its good to be the 1st raiser because if the pot is raise 3 times more. I'd consider folding in this case.
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Folding KK preflop? Are you insane?
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inƒamous
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 62
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The only time I would ever limp utg w/ KK is if I knew the pot was going to get raised. At a live tourney one time a player was raise pushing pratically every hand. C-bet shoving so here it made sense and other situations like it. Also another time I did it I managed to get away from the hand with less money involved preflop when a super nit player. Raised and reraised me after I repopped him. I folded my kings face up and he smiled and flipped over his aces. Then the table got quiet
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jovar
Quote:
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its good to be the 1st raiser because if the pot is raise 3 times more. I'd consider folding in this case.
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Folding KK preflop? Are you insane? |
Well, if you raise, someone 3bs you, then someone cold 4bs, and someone cold 5bs, then yes, I'd consider folding.
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Airles™
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 317
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I would never, ever limp any big pair from UTG at a micro-stakes table. Reason being, they are traditionally passive limp-fests and all you'll wind up doing is inviting several players to come see the flop with you. You've just opened the door for all sorts of trash that could now have you crushed or at least potentially by the river. If you're limping KK with the intention of 3-betting a late position raiser, fine, but I've seen this from too many players and if they ever show down, it's about 99% KK+, .5% QQ, AK and .5% a lower pair. (Not exact statistics, but you get my point). If you're limp/calling with KK that's a whole 'nother story.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
The solution to getting 1 outered is a simple one. We just need to find the site that is the least rigged.
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