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Pelion
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11-21-2005, 12:36 AM
Post subject: Limping hands at aggressive/passive tables
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Ive just finished "answering" a question in my semi-drunk state and a question occured to me.
At low limit NLHE (25NL ish or less)
assume 2-3 limpers before you.
If you are sat in middle-late position (not button) on a fairly aggressive table and you are delt 78s then you probably shouldnt call because if 2 suited/ 2 connected come then you are likely to be bet out of the hand by anyone with anything. If noone has anything then you wont get paid off if you hit so it isnt worth it.
If you are in the middle position with KQ then is it ok to limp and assume that anyone with AK, AQ would have raised or will raise behind you. This way you are still fairly happy that your single pair is good if you hit and you hopefully draw KJ, QJ along for the ride.
Or is it always better to raise/fold KQ even under these circumstances.
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I don't understand why you would limp it with good position? If it's a loose and aggressive table, you are probably ahead preflop. You should just raise it most of the time, because you can hit a K or Q but with so many people in the hand there could be two pair, straights or flushes made on the flop.
I would just raise it.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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hmm i actually aggree with you. im not really sure what i was thinking there. I would probably just raise or fold too lol.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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I limp KQ for the very reason you state. The people I play with get attatched to TPNK so I want them in the hand and calling me down. If there is no preflop raise I can be fairly sure there is no AK, AQ out there and my TPGK is probably ahead. If there is a raise behind I can fold preflop with minimal loss.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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ive taken to doing it at micro stakes but only if there are few limpers and its the sort of table where AQ gets raised.
If i start seeing AQ limped then KQ becomes a raise or folding hand. usually fold.
I wouldnt limp KQ in a family pot because theres too much of a chane you are beaten by 2 pair or better. I also probably wouldnt limp it much at higher stakes
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Raise it up!
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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There is no general optimal preflop strategy. Playing marginal hands purley depends on your post flop abilities. You will almost never get 4:1 odds when chasing a draw unless your playing against super-passive-donks, and miracle flops are so rare that you can exclude them from most calculations. It's all aboooot you. (yeah im canadian )
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Tom.S
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Build a pot and stack someone.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Destacking with TPGK? 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
Destacking with TPGK? |
All I need to do is flop over a better hand than you at showdown. Sometimes TPGK gets it done.
I play fairly tight and well post-flop. I want to play in raised pots with initiative + position when I come into a hand and go from there.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
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I find it easier to get stacked with TPGK than destack someone with it (hence I fold AJ/KQ EP).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
I find it easier to get stacked with TPGK than destack someone with it.
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Why is that?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
(hence I fold AJ/KQ EP).
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Good answer, curious how you got there...
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rubixstreub
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
I find it easier to get stacked with TPGK than destack someone with it.
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Why is that?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by johnny_fish
(hence I fold AJ/KQ EP).
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Good answer, curious how you got there... |
I'd guess 3-4 digit red numbers in PT
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Just 2 digits. Thank God for BR management :P
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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If I can raise to 10bb preflop with KQ and get 2 callers, will this be more or less profitable then limping it along with 8 limpers?
Opponents are the the very definition of loose/passive/fish.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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That probably depends on what they call with. If they are likely to call preflop with AQ but fold without a pair or 2 then you could be in trouble raising and getting calls from behind. better to limp for 2pair/ straight draw/ flush draw, since they are so passive they will give you odds to draw. If they will call with K10 and stay in the pot withonly the pair of kings, or call with 78 and stay in with only a pair of 8s then its probably better to raise.
This is starting to confuse me now lol. oh well at least im thinking about poker . . .
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
That probably depends on what they call with. If they are likely to call preflop with AQ but fold without a pair or 2 then you could be in trouble raising and getting calls from behind. better to limp for 2pair/ straight draw/ flush draw, since they are so passive they will give you odds to draw. If they will call with K10 and stay in the pot withonly the pair of kings, or call with 78 and stay in with only a pair of 8s then its probably better to raise.
This is starting to confuse me now lol. oh well at least im thinking about poker . . .
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This is what I thought too. Hence, I limp.
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